10/22 Bolt and FTF Issues

[Tipro]

Posted a question about my Ruger 10/22 a week or so ago, to which I received several great answers, and hopefully I can trouble some of yall for more help.

Experienced several failure to feeds with my 10/22 a couple days ago, and figured it was probably from improper cleaning/dirty mag's. Cleaned both thoroughly, and yet the ftf's persisted.

Found on a different thread that the ftf could be the bolt, and a dirty firing pin. So, upon examining the bolt in an attempt at disassembly (you too can examine it in the attached thumbnail), I saw a hole right through the bolt. A look at the manual told me that a pin (the "firing pin stop pin," part B-13) is supposed to be there. No clue how long this has been missing, but I'll replace it.

The main question is, could that pin be responsible for my ftf's? I just don't see how the firing pin helps chamber the next round.

Additionally, even though the "firing pin stop pin" is removed (missing), I still can't remove the actual firing pin. Anyone know some tricks on getting it out? I can feel that it's still on some sort of spring, so the part is generally in order, I think.

 

[greyling22]

have you tried different ammo yet? some remington golden bullet and winchester wildcat will cause my 10/22 to choke. but with good ammo you really shouldn't have to tear your gun down that far to clean it. in my experience 10/22's tend to just run and run and run.

 

[jbkebert]

Are you sure it does not have a hollow rolled spring pin. Can't tell from picture.

 

[Tipro]

have you tried different ammo yet? some remington golden bullet and winchester wildcat will cause my 10/22 to choke. but with good ammo you really shouldn't have to tear your gun down that far to clean it. in my experience 10/22's tend to just run and run and run.

I'm using almost exclusively federal bulk. I can just about rule that out, as the ammunition worked for the first 1k rounds or so, and the gun has just recently started malfunctioning. If it's not this pin, my only other guess is that the front lip on my (factory) magazines (all of them) may be too high, and if I could take a metal file and wear it down a tad, maybe it would feed easier. Scared to do this however, as I haven't seen anyone else mention this problem, and I don't want to break one or more of my mag's.

 

[Tipro]

Are you sure it does not have a hollow rolled spring pin. Can't tell from picture.

Wow. Yes. It has a hollow pin. But now I'm more confused than ever about the ftf's. I'll take it back to the place where I bought it, the gunsmith there is a nice guy. Hopefully smarter than I am (not a monumental feat at this point).

 

[jbkebert]

I have always used a couple dots of gun grease on the main spring. Other than that a small drop of oil on all parts that move.

The only .22lr ammo I use in any of my .22's is CCI mini-mags. Yes bulk pack is cheaper I don't care. I have fired thousands upon thousands of mini-mags and I could count the misfires on one hand and have fingers left over.

 

[Picher]

If it's a failure to feed, especially from the first round in a magazine, it's probably the magazine. It's less likely the ammo, but possible. Those rifles have a good reputation for feeding well from factory 10-rounders, but after-market extended magazines can be trouble.

IF an empty shell is causing FTFs by blocking feeds, it's often due to a poorly-fitted extractor. The extractor should hold the casing against the bolt until it's struck by the ejector, which is part of the magazine.

 

[briansmithwins]

The easiest things to try are changing ammo and mags. Use factory mags only for testing like this and try every different type of ammo you can get.

Most guns work better when well lubricated as opposed to a few drops of oil or dry. I'd also make sure the bolt has a nice amount of oil on it and doesn't dry out while you're troubleshooting.

BSW

 

[mastiffhound]

If you are using promag magazines you will have to file them down, had the same problem untill I filed them. I could see the metal wearing on the magazines from the bolt contacting them. It was hanging the bolt up just enough to not fire when the trigger was pulled. I ended up buying some steel lip butler creek mags and they worked flawlessly, also the new ruger bx25 mags work great.

 

[Tipro]

If it's a failure to feed, especially from the first round in a magazine, it's probably the magazine. It's less likely the ammo, but possible. Those rifles have a good reputation for feeding well from factory 10-rounders, but after-market extended magazines can be trouble.

IF an empty shell is causing FTFs by blocking feeds, it's often due to a poorly-fitted extractor. The extractor should hold the casing against the bolt until it's struck by the ejector, which is part of the magazine.

You know, it may just be the extractor. I'll try and clean it real well, hopefully that will smooth out the problems.

Anyone have experience with the Volquartsen extractor? Maybe I should just go ahead and buy that upgrade.

 

[hipoint]

forgive me if this was answered, but I didn't see if you ever responded to the questions of magazines. So, are you using the factory magazine or an aftermarket mag?

If you're using aftermarket, or even a factory mag, try a different magazine before you go ordering stuff. wal-mart where I live sells the ruger mags. Mine is my hands down favorite gun, but it can get a little squirrely with the larger mags from time to time.

also the bulk pack ammo from any maker is going to have lots of variation in cartridge length, lip size, powder load, and bullet seating. All makers have quite a bit of variation, but the cheaper you go the more variation you get. Don't give up on her yet, a good cleaning, and a different mag should fix it, if not just try some different ammo as you may have gotten into a bad part of the box even...

 

[greyling22]

could you give a bit more info on "failure to feed"
is the previous round not ejecting all the way?
is it a round from the magazine jamming like it is trying to enter the chamber at too steep an angle?
is the bolt just not closing all the way?

If you've only burned through a thousand rounds it's probably not your extractor. I added the VQ extractor when I was having stovepiping issues, and that didn't solve it. turns out the channel in the barrel that the extractor fits in was gummed up and I couldn't see it, eve when I cleaned it. Had to pull the barrel to discover the problem. but that was after 15 years and about 15thousand rounds.

but pull your bolt out of the gun, slide a casing under the extractor so it is held to the bolt face. hold bolt with bullet pointed up and shake the bolt around. if the case stays on the bolt your extractor is probably fine.

this is the place to go for all things 10/22. specifically tweaks. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=220

 

[jrdolall]

There is a video on Youtube that goes into very detailed instructions on dismantling the internal workings of the 10/22.

My older one will shoot any ammo I put into it and has thousands of rounds through it with the occasional stovepipe. I bought a new one last week and have not shot it enough to tell. I do not like the aftermarket mags as well as I do the Ruger mags. doses it FTF using the standard 10 round mag? I do have some finicky .22s. My Buckmark is a POS if I try to use any of the bulk ammo but is a tack driver and no issues using Stingers.

 

[wally]

Two of our three 10/22 rifles wouldn't run reliably with the 25 round mags until I replaced the extractors with Volqurtson "exact edge". After that even the $8 Eagle 25 round mags have worked, although the plastic on these mags are crap and they break easily.

Try a Ruger BX 25 round mags before doing anything other than the simple extractor replacement.

 

[Red Cent]

The ejector is not on the magazine. The ejector is separate and rides in a slot at 2:00 looking at the bolt face. A pin through the top of the trigger group holds the ejector.

Sounds like a toothbrush and some degreaser is in order. The extractor is easily removed for cleaning. And the VQ or the Ron Power extractor is cheap insurance.

I agree with using a different magazine to test feeding.

 

[Tipro]

could you give a bit more info on "failure to feed"
is the previous round not ejecting all the way?
is it a round from the magazine jamming like it is trying to enter the chamber at too steep an angle?
is the bolt just not closing all the way?

If you've only burned through a thousand rounds it's probably not your extractor. I added the VQ extractor when I was having stovepiping issues, and that didn't solve it. turns out the channel in the barrel that the extractor fits in was gummed up and I couldn't see it, eve when I cleaned it. Had to pull the barrel to discover the problem. but that was after 15 years and about 15thousand rounds.

but pull your bolt out of the gun, slide a casing under the extractor so it is held to the bolt face. hold bolt with bullet pointed up and shake the bolt around. if the case stays on the bolt your extractor is probably fine.

this is the place to go for all things 10/22. specifically tweaks. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=220

The casings will fully eject, yet the subsequent round fails to make it all the way into the bore. Like it's feeding at too low an angle, and the rim of the casing gets stuck in the magazine. I'm using the factory 10 round magazines, and they all seem to malfunction at about the same rate. If it helps, after shooting about 600 rounds one day outside I had maybe 30-40 ftf's like that described above in this message.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Prolly a stupid question but did you clean the chamber throroughly also? If the bolt, guide, and spring/rod are clean and lubed and the bolt is not dragging on the magazine the odd bullet that is maybe slightly out of round or at the large end of the allowable tolerance may be hanging up on something in the chamber.

 

[greyling22]

well it's not an extractor issue then. are your mags fully seating? did you reassemble them property? is your chamber clean? have you replaced any other parts recently? bolt buffer? recoil spring?

can you cycle loaded rounds from the magazine by hand without issues? (I'm wondering if maybe the guns is dirty or dry and the bolt is not fully cycling)

 

[wally]

can you cycle loaded rounds from the magazine by hand without issues?

IMHO you can learn nothing from doing this that is worth the risk of an ND. If you must, do it on the firing line at the range with it pointed safely down range!

 

[greyling22]

I was thinking that that way he would know the bolt was cycling the whole way. And doing it in a safe place was implied. I guess you should never leave something like that just implied.

 

[Strongbad]

Where is the problem happening? Are you ending up with a case half out of the port or what? "cleaning it thoroughly" entails what? How often does it happen now? Is it 10 for 10? 2 for 10? 10/22 mags can be screwy sometimes, so just because you cleaned them doesn't mean it can't still be the mags. Also, if I've put 1000 rounds or so through my 10/22 and it's giving me similar problems I'll go as far as to pull the barrel and give it a good cleaning from the breech end with particular focus on the chamber itself. The soft lead the bullets are made out of combined with the waxy coating some mfgs use can really start to wreak havoc after you get a couple of bulk boxes down the tube.

 

[Red Cent]

I am hearing the bolt rides over a round that is attempting to chamber. Are you saying the heel/rim of the case is in the nagazine and the bolt is stopped by the trapped case?

Then it is the magazine. The bolt should strike the top of the rim pushing the round out of the magazine and chambering said round. If the round is nosediving, it is still the magazine.

When this happens, is the round partially under the bolt or is the bolt pushing on the rear of the round?

Need a picture, bad.




..

 

[Magoo]

Here's a good video showing how to disassemble/clean/reassemble-tension 10/22 magazines. If you haven't done this yet, it's a worthwhile thing to do before you spend a dime or tinker with anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek4_iFVoKdo