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10 gauge info??

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by EastonTexas, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. EastonTexas

    EastonTexas Member

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    I was wondering the value of this zabala 10 gauge and how are they? I never see double barrel 10 gauges in most places I go to. Probably would see one at a gun show but haven't been in a while. Any info would be appreciated
     

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  2. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    I have a "Windsor Churchill II" 20 vs 26" made by Zabala that I like as a loaner and a grouse gun. I had a Zabala 12ga so-called "pigeon gun" that was fairly high grade, sold to a chap I used to shoot sporting clays with.

    Is that a Zabala Hermanos branded gun or one of the "Matadors" made for Sears. I can see Zabala on the barrels, so I'm guessing former rather than latter?

    Zabala, like all of the Eibar makers in the fifties and sixties was less a manufacturer than the financier of a cooperative. They bought in parts from Eibar artisans based on the price point they were aiming for and did final assembly and finish. I am pretty sure Zabala made their own barrels.

    So the trick with Spanish guns of that era is to identify the price point being manufactured to. My 12ga was a European market gun and was well finished, well engraved, and had good wood, albeit nothing special. The "Churchill" 20 ga was imported by Kassanar as I recall and was a bit of a scam. Very basic box lock, Anson & Deely set up, with a good set of chopper lump barrels. Moderate engraving in a classic rose and scroll type pattern but with a rather cheesy "coin finish" receiver. Good barrel bluing. good regulation. Double triggers. Choked a tight IC/M. All good to that point. Then, for the "American market", they ruined the gun with a pistol grip and beaver forend. Unbelievable. I don't know what they sold for originally, but I got the Churchill for $325 about 10 years ago. I can't remember what I paid for the 12ga but I sold it for $1800 and will have certainly made some money on it.

    If that 10ga is a straight Zabala and not a "Matador" it will likely be a better gun. However, a few things to keep in mind. I can't tell from the photo, but if it's not double triggers, walk away. Spanish guns of that era with single selective triggers are notoriously unreliable and prone to doubling, which will be very unpleasant in a 10 ga. Check the rib. I think I can see silver soldering in the last pic and this is another weakness of mid to low end Spanish guns of that era - poor silver soldering of the ribs. You don't want that rattling loose on your second shot. Pot metal lock work. That 10 ga looks like it may be a better grade, but even my Churchill's internals are a little fishy and in a 10ga, pot metal will not hold up. I really dislike pistol grip and beaver tail forend on a SxS, a real abomination. But in 10ga, I think it's the better set up, adds strength and heft, so that's a plus.

    As to value, that's up to you. There's no flourishing market for 10ga SxS, let alone 50 year old Spanish 10ga guns. I wouldn't want one, but if I did, I'd be willing to go $500, providing it's double triggers and the rib soldering is solid.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. EastonTexas

    EastonTexas Member

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    Thanks for the info. I figured I'd get a few more responses but not much luck. I have a pump and single barrel 10 so I wanted to add a double 10 to the collection and came across one at a pawn shop. First one I've seen in a pawn shop. I figured I might not see one again or any time soon unless it was at a gun show or online so I was interested in it. I did read they were maybe average guns in general but as long as it shot good I'd be happy
     
  4. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    As a 10ga fan, you need a double ! As long as it’s double triggers and the rib seems solid, go for it.
     
  5. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    If the price they are asking is reasonable to you just buy it.

    It sounds like 10 gauge trips your trigger and if so add it to your collection.
     
  6. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    My paternal grandmother had a single shot break action 10 gauge with a hard buttplate, no recoil pad. I shot it once, that was enough for me.

    On the other hand I’ve shot a Browning Gold and Remington SP-10. That’s the route I’d take today if wanting a shotgun to shoot 12 gauge 3.5” payloads. The felt recoil is noticeably less, primarily due to weight.

    From everything I know the advice given has been factual. There was a time when to keep the doors open Spanish shotgun makers built some pretty shoddy shotguns at a particular price point. Today Spanish SxS’s are of outstanding quality, at least the ones I’m familiar with, AyA and Grulla.
     
  7. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    And the stock is not cracked at the wrist. Chronic problem on Matador 10s.
     
  8. Bill460

    Bill460 Member

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    I have a Windsor / Churchill 10 Ga. I bought new in the box in 1985. I paid $400.00 for it at a LGS. I still have it. It's only had a few rounds through it. It weighs a ton, and because of that recoil is very tolerable. It has 30" barrels bored Full / Full with double triggers. I keep telling my self I should take it to my gun club and shoot a round of trap with it just for giggles. I have a box of lead #6's, which is about as fine of shot as you can find in 10 Ga. It's an impressive piece of hardware. The receiver is coin finished, with some nice engraving.
     
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  9. forindooruseonly

    forindooruseonly Member

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    Are those Zabala's safe to shoot steel shot out of? Just wondering, I'm not a 10 gauge or watefowl guy, but all the 10 gauge ammo I see around is steel shot.
     
  10. Bill460

    Bill460 Member

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    I would not shoot steel shot out of any solid bored, full choked side by side with soldered barrels. Shoot Bismuth instead. They're much more expensive, but it's cheaper than a ruined gun.
     
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  11. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    The Zabala made Windsor Churchill is not rated for steel. Steel is to be avoided in a full choked gun in any event.
     
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  12. Ks5shooter

    Ks5shooter Member

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    This^^^^^^^^^
     
  13. Gordon
    • Contributing Member

    Gordon Contributing Member

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    I had mine for 30 years, when I got it steel was just being made mandatory for water fowl so I bought a Browning Pump 10 gauge to use for that purpose. So I had my Zabala Churchill cut down to 20" and the resultant hole where the barrels and rib joinet filled with hardened lead , which added a nice and needed weight. I had a big front sight bead installed. It shoots slugs and Buck very nicely and with some old 2 5/8 shells with 6s I have is a hoot to jump quail in brush :) Since I have a 10 gauge reloader and ulls and wads for the 3.5 magnum 10s I did load up 2 1/4 .oz of #8s to use when I shot up that flat of those 2 7/8 Peters from the 50s , which I still have some left !
    I don't shoot it alot as a hair line crack is just seen starting to develop at wrist , a very common thing . The recoil is significant but held well is tolerable for this 74 YO, it is part of my home defense battery, tho in past used around my small ranch in Ca. to dispatch pests that got near the house. In the photo top to bottom Ithaca 3" 20 gauge Deer Slayer Model 87 Ultra light made from a police auction stake out pistol . Middle 10 gauge sawed off with those awesome 10 Gauge 1 3/4 .oz Federal 3.5 inch shells it takes and shoots to point of aim at 25 yards with with 6" groups :) Bottom a beautiful 1955 Winchester Model 12 12 ga Riot gun which was my fathers home defense gun .
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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  14. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Nice battery of shotguns!
     
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