I trust you have more group sets than the two you posted. I like a minimum of 5 shoot groups and then multiple group shot sets to giive me a better understanding. From the limited sets you posted, I'm not sure you can conclude your shooting is better at 200 yards. Yes for the two pictures posted it is.
100 yd struggles
- Thread starter plodder
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Andrew Leigh
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Could I offer a couple of thoughts?
Target one.
If that was shot on a clean barrel and shot 1 was the top, shot 2 beneath that and the three other together being shots 3/4 and 5 then the two uppermost shots were flyers from a clean barrel then the barrel settled down.
If the rifle was already fouled with other bullets then cast your mind back. Was the sequence of shots as I mentioned above? If so, and if you walked to the 100yd mark to set up your target and you shot immediately on return to the bench then then it could have been breathing issues.
Target two
Here the group pattern is considerably better and if you pulled those three shots closer you would have a clover leaf. Looks like about 1.4" group. I battle shooting at a round bull for some strange reason but more on then in the next point.
Target three
That is a great group at 200yds. May I suggest that the reason for this good grouping is the nature of the target. Those 1/8" horizontal and vertical lines are great for shooting. Sometimes the bull is obscured by the cross hairs but with the cross (if set up vertically) it stops canting of the rifle and helps enormously with vertical displacement.
If I could offer some advice then it would be;
Make sure your targets are consistent, attached is what I shoot at when doing load development at 100m. Unfortunately it is made for an A3 page (i'm in metricville) but if you set your margins at the max it should fit on your paper sizes. On A3 the grid is 0.5". You will note the horizontal and vertical lines as well as the diamond rather than a square bull. The bull is also smaller than an inch (aim small, miss small). I roughly plumbline my targets to avoid canting.
The second matter would be to make sure that the barrel is suitably fouled before settling in to shoot groups.
The third would be to agree with a previous poster in that while developing loads I would fold the bipod in and shoot over a bag, front and rear. Once you have that then revert to the bipod, the POI will print differently though.
I find it useful to make a note of the sequence of the shots, it helps at a later stage to establish if there is a pattern,
Finally often poor groups are a consequence not so much of the shooter but of the load being well out of the sweet spot. I would encourage you to read Dan Newberry's OCW (Optimum Charge Weight) page. I use it and find it invaluable for load development. http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ The target attached was developed for the OCW method.
Good luck, if you want, I have converted Dan's writeup into a spreadsheet for ease of use. PM me with an email address and I will send it.
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plodder
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Thanks Andrew Leigh & all who posted advice. I am getting ready to head to the range now and will be trying to incorporate some (Not All!) of the suggestions posted. A lot of them make sense.
I will return with a post on results unless they are too embarrassing to report.
I will return with a post on results unless they are too embarrassing to report.
Andrew Leigh
Member
Post them either way, had a couple of shockers on the range myself.
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plodder
Member
Progress??
Well, I'm not bragging and obviously not quite ready for Camp Perry honors but there is a glimmer of hope.
I dropped the bipod and rested on bags front & rear. Dialed down the magnification of the scope a bit and concentrated on breathing and rigid contact points with the bench.
Groups are still about twice at large as I want, but the misses aren't quite as wild and random.
You'll hear from me next when I can display a photo of my 5 petalled cloverleaf group.
Well, I'm not bragging and obviously not quite ready for Camp Perry honors but there is a glimmer of hope.
I dropped the bipod and rested on bags front & rear. Dialed down the magnification of the scope a bit and concentrated on breathing and rigid contact points with the bench.
Groups are still about twice at large as I want, but the misses aren't quite as wild and random.
You'll hear from me next when I can display a photo of my 5 petalled cloverleaf group.
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Andrew Leigh
Member
Progress.
You appear to have two subgroups within a group. If that was a bolt rifle I would tell you that your action screws were loose / bedding was not correct, but it is not. In any event, is there any possibility of anything being loose on the rifle?
Group 1
If there was no wind then your forearm may have been slipping laterally on the front bag.
Group 2
Practice will bring that in, assuming the load is OK. There is also lateral movement yet another indicator that the forearm may be slipping on the front back. You lateral POI however seems to be the same on average on both targets, about 0.5" right of centre.
On both groups. Did you complete each group without standing up and moving away from the bench. Often a return to the bench will result in a different posture and therefore a different POI. Did you also allow adequate cooling? Did you shoot fouling shots if the barrel was not already fouled that is.
Did you by any chance take note of the sequence of the shots?
You appear to have two subgroups within a group. If that was a bolt rifle I would tell you that your action screws were loose / bedding was not correct, but it is not. In any event, is there any possibility of anything being loose on the rifle?
Group 1
If there was no wind then your forearm may have been slipping laterally on the front bag.
Group 2
Practice will bring that in, assuming the load is OK. There is also lateral movement yet another indicator that the forearm may be slipping on the front back. You lateral POI however seems to be the same on average on both targets, about 0.5" right of centre.
On both groups. Did you complete each group without standing up and moving away from the bench. Often a return to the bench will result in a different posture and therefore a different POI. Did you also allow adequate cooling? Did you shoot fouling shots if the barrel was not already fouled that is.
Did you by any chance take note of the sequence of the shots?
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plodder
Member
Andrew:
Your diagnosis of the forearm on the front bag slipping was spot on. I caught myself doing that several times yesterday and I will have to work on posture and techniques to eliminate.
The barrel was sufficiently fouled before I started the sequence.
Wind was virtually no factor.
Time between shots was approximately 20-30 seconds.
I did stand between some shots to look through spotting scope.
I did not diligently log the sequence of shots, but memory is that first 2-3 shots were the tighter, last 2 shots opened up.
Your diagnosis of the forearm on the front bag slipping was spot on. I caught myself doing that several times yesterday and I will have to work on posture and techniques to eliminate.
The barrel was sufficiently fouled before I started the sequence.
Wind was virtually no factor.
Time between shots was approximately 20-30 seconds.
I did stand between some shots to look through spotting scope.
I did not diligently log the sequence of shots, but memory is that first 2-3 shots were the tighter, last 2 shots opened up.
Andrew Leigh
Member
Hi Plodder,
we are making huge progress. The barrel needs to cool for a little longer between shots.
The first shots being tighter would indicate a concentration problem, three close together and we think we are on the money and then we loose the plot.
Well done so far.
we are making huge progress. The barrel needs to cool for a little longer between shots.
The first shots being tighter would indicate a concentration problem, three close together and we think we are on the money and then we loose the plot.
Well done so far.
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