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10mm vs .45 acp, pros and cons?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by MJRW, Apr 9, 2003.

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  1. MJRW

    MJRW Member

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    I haven't seen this debated much. I've seen 9mm vs .45 left and right. I'm not wondering which is "better", I'm wondering what the pros and cons are. Cost, velocity, penetration, trajectory, recoil out of similar platforms, etc.?
     
  2. DeltaElite

    DeltaElite Member

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    The 10mm ammo costs more, recoils more and has more energy than the 45acp.

    There are fewer platforms from which to deliver the 10mm.
    There is only one regular production 1911 style 10mm and that is the Dan Wesson Razorback.
    There is the full sized Glock 20 and the compact Glock 29 in 10mm.
    There is also the EAA Witness in 10mm.

    In the used 10mm handgun market, there are the Smiths, Deltas, but they are out of production.

    Via the internet, you can get alot of 10mm ammo, but most local shops have little if any 10mm ammo.

    Both the 45acp and 10mm are excellent cartridges.
    The 10mm is capable of better penetration and has a flatter trajectory, it is a higher velocity cartridge.
    I am very comfortable with either cartridge and if economics is a factor, then the 45acp is alot less expensive to have around.

    Good luck with whichever one you choose. :D
     
  3. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    10mm guns also usually have a higher magazine capacity than .45acp versions. A single stack will usually give you an extra round. A double stack 10mm give you more plus 10mm doesn't have the same the blockyness in the grip a .45 has.
     
  4. CZF

    CZF Member

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    Should you be a Reloader, the cost is about the same for
    ammo. The .40/10mm bullets being cheaper in some cases.

    .45 ACP brass is cheap, but you also find good deals on bulk
    10mm brass, usually in better shape than .45 brass IMHO

    I used to be a big .45 fan. Torn between the ergonomics
    and firepower of the CZ75, or the big ole .45 round's
    'stopping power' or the warm- fuzzy feeling you get
    from it:)

    After finding the Witness in 10mm, it seems a perfect
    balance.

    TEN high-velocity .40 rounds rounds. Plenty of punch..
    without punishing recoil, at least in the steel framed Witness

    I'm sure the .45 Witness would be OK. I doubt
    if it would be as much fun to shoot as the 10MM.

    From MILD to WILD! THE 10MM!
     

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  5. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    I really enjoyed the 10mm pistol I had. The ONLY reason I sold it was because I was having more & more difficulty finding ammo for it :(
    I really like shooting the 45 acp, but if I come across a good deal on a 10mm, I might take the plunge again :rolleyes:
     
  6. Erik

    Erik Member

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    The only con, other than expense depending on where you live and whether or not you reload, is that should a JHP fail to expand the round will punch through .05" smaller than a .45acp which acts in a similar manner.

    Big deal? Not to many. Some though.... Well, there are always some. :)
     
  7. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    Factory 10mm ammo costs about the same as factory .45 ACP ammo, and can be cheaper in some cases if you order in bulk. Of course, using the MAIL scares the crap out of some people, who will buy $15/50 boxes of UMC .45 ACP at the corner store, and tell you that your $160-180/1,000 10mm ammo is "hopelessly expensive." :neener:

    10mm isn't for everybody. Remember, most people are scared of .45 ACP, so a cartridge that can about double the muzzle energy of G.I. hardball is never going to become a "mainstream" proposition.

    Comparing 10mm with .45 ACP almost misses the point, though. What 10mm really does is replicate the versatility of a magnum revolver cartridge in an autoloader, neatly splitting the difference between .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum. Like those cartridges, it is fine for self-defense against humans. And like those cartridges, it can also be credibly used for hunting and self-defense against four-legged critters. In those roles, it easily eclipses .45 ACP... and arguably even .45 Super/.45 SMC.
     
  8. Boats

    Boats member

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    The .45ACP has a singularity of purpose--it was a pistol cartridge designed to drop humans. It has been doing just that with a fabulous record for nearly 100 years. Evidently, every service auto round except the older 9mmP has been attempting to "correct" some shortcoming of the .45ACP. To me, most of the alleged shortcomings are invalid, except perhaps when someone insists that higher capacity is truely called for by certain professionals.

    I like the concept of the 10mm, but I find the .45's controlability to be much better in rapid fire. I was going to buy a Glock 20, just to have one, until Misters Glock and Januzzo screwed that up for me.
     
  9. MCNETT

    MCNETT Member

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    Sean Smith just about summed it all up. 10mm will do everyhting that the .40SW or .45 ACP will do AND (with hotter loadings) move into .41 mag territory!
    -Mike
     
  10. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    You wanna know what the biggest con to the 10mm?

    I don't have one!
     
  11. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    That kind of says it all... if that is "all" you need a handgun for (and that fits most people), then .45 ACP really doesn't need to be forsaken for something "better." But if you want more versatility (or just more power), 10mm can provide that from an autoloader of practical size.
     
  12. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

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    I used to be a big 10mm fan. But after carrying a Glock 20 for a bit, I started not to like it. It less reliable than a 45 in all the plat forms I have tried it in. When factory +p 45 acp ammo is thrown in the mix the power levels are about identical. In single stack guns both hold 8 +1 rounds at least in 1911's. Not many people make 10mm's anymore, while everyone makes a 45 it seems. There is better ammo made for the 45 acp.
    PAT
     
  13. DeltaElite

    DeltaElite Member

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    45acp +p ammo only approaches soft loaded 10mm.
    45acp+p 200gr top out at 1050
    10mm 200gr top out at 1200
    The only weight load where 45acp approaches 10mm is in the 165gr loads, both go about 1250fps, although the 10mm can be loaded to 1300fps.

    I have seen no reliability difference between the two in any platform.

    45acp is much easier to find ammo for and has more bullet options, along with being in more pistols.

    It comes down to picking a platform and seeing if it comes in 10mm and 45acp.
    Then picking one based upon ammo cost and availibility, if that is even a concern for you.

    Honestly, if I could only have one gun, I would take the 45acp over the 10mm, due to the availibity of ammo.
     
  14. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    I know at least one pistolsmith that said the exact opposite, i.e. that (at least in 1911s) 10mm is a touch more feed-reliable than .45 ACP... the skinnier cartridges (10mm ,9x23) have a "straighter shot" into the chamber in a 1911 than the .45 ACP does.
     
  15. 45auto

    45auto Member

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    The 45 is a good blend of power and control in a handgun for most people that shoot enough.

    The 10mm gives the "energy junkie" a hot load that is accurate and it can be downloaded to comfortable levels in large frame guns. It feeds better in a 1911 than the 40 without "work".
    Nothing wrong with being an "energy junkie" by the way!

    It won't fad away and it won't become popular because it recoils too much for most people in the hot loads. If you shoot it downloaded all the time you might as well buy a 40.

    Good luck
     
  16. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Both will take a bowling pin clean off the table during pin shoots.

    That's all I really care about from these two cartridges. :)
     
  17. 12-34hom

    12-34hom Member

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    10mm

    After recieving and shooting my D.W. 1911 in 10mm, i can say it's the most accurate of ANY pistol i've owned.

    So far, i've only run 200 grain TMJ -Blazers & Federals 180 grain American Eagle lead loads thru it. At 15 yards,slow fire two handed = silver dollar size groups all day long.

    Some Texas ammo or Pro Load should be excellent fare.

    I do believe that i'm going to start to reloading for handgun...

    I have no quarrel with 45acp, but 10mm is one sweet round.

    12-34hom.
     
  18. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    As much as I like the 45ACP, there really isn't a comparison. The 10mm holds more rounds, is more 'powerful' by nearly any standard and can be made to work in nearly all the major platforms. The drawbacks to the 10 have been listed here, less availability in the local shops, and a few less platforms from which to launch it. The drawbacks of the 45 are pretty much limited to cartridge capacity - the number of rounds in the gun if you value that.

    If using FMJ ammo, both are going to completely penetrate a human target from nearly any angle at least 90% of the time. Using the best bullets available, both are going to put the serious hurts on a bad guy if called upon to do that. Just depends on if you're more of a heavier and slower guy or a lighter and faster guy but as mentioned above, at 200gr, the 10mm is the same weight and faster so even that argument becomes invalid if comparing that bullet weight.

    If you're talking about something just to play with, the 45ACP might come more into it's own, not to say it should be limited to such. But with more readily accessable ammo, the 45 is a more convinient cartridge to shoot. Also, you should be able to make a 45 run faster in competition but you'd probably need a couple years experience to tell the difference and by then, you'd probably be taken into the world of the 38 Super and 9x23.
     
  19. agtman

    agtman Member

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    "...at 200gr, the 10mm is the same weight and faster so even that argument becomes invalid if comparing that bullet weight."


    Correct.

    The 10mm Auto represents the third ballistic alternative: HEAVY and FAST.

    The 10mm's power range and versatility are simply unmatched by any other caliber that can be chambered in an autoloader of conventional size and weight.

    Having said that, I'd add that the .45acp is a fine old warhorse of a cartridge, and no one carrying it for defensive use should feel underarmed.

    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2003
  20. Tacblack

    Tacblack Member

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    Both the 10mm and the 45acp due just fine it just comes down to what you like,think,believe in more or just want to carry.
    I would go with the 10mm cause I already have 40s&w reloading stuff. If I didn't reload I would go with the 45.
    The point I saw some references to plat forms and one caliber coming in a smaller gun etc. I don't know any guns wheel or autoloader that don't use the same plat form for both thier 10mm and 45acp. So that wouldn't really be a factor.
     
  21. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

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    Part of the reason the FBI went with 45 acp for hits HRT team was Les Baer (original doubles stacks prior to the springfield) told them that the 10mm did not feed as well. Also this is data comparing the +p 45 acp 185 grain saber load at 1185 in my Glock 21 while some 175 grain silver tips averaged 1180 in my Glock 20. Thats actually less powerfull. The 230 grian ranger goes 980 and has 500 foot pounds thats good enough for me. My 20 was never as reliable as my 21. Maybe just my luck. But I have heard simular reports from others.
    PAT
     
  22. standingbear

    standingbear Member

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    and try finding a mag for a bren 10.nada nope cant.
     
  23. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    So what? I don't think too many people here plan on dropping $1,500 on a Bren X, assuming they can even find one... :rolleyes:

    .355 Sigfan: your sample of one is noted.

    As for Baer... it is worth noting that his HRT guns in .45 ACP were unreliable as hell. So excuse me if I'm not impressed. :neener:
     
  24. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

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    Sean Smith

    Such sarcasm. Actually I have owned the 20 and a Smith 610. But my experience shooting 10mm's is not limited to what I have owned. Here is a list of guns I have shot in 10mm. The 45 acp list is too long to think of.
    Glock 20, 29
    Colt Delta
    Smith 1006
    about 6 different assorted 1911's.

    The fact is the 10mm shape being tall, straitwalled with truncated cone bullets does not help reliablity. Yes Baer's double stack 1911's did not work well. But most of his other guns do work well. He did not want them to go with a double stack from what I have read. The Smith 1076's the FBI issued were a huge 10mm reliability flop.

    Anyway if you have a 10mm that works for you I am happy. Just you had better stock up on ammo and reloading supplies they seem to be less and less people making ammo and guns for the 10mm year by year.

    PAT
     
  25. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    355 Sigfan:

    Could you please substantiate your last statement?

    Specifically which manufacturers of guns and ammo made a 10 mm last year, and dont still make it this year?
     
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