11 or 13 rounds .380 = is that a game changer ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by scaatylobo, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. mavracer

    mavracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,610
    Location:
    wichita
    I'm pretty good at math and have a very good understanding of terminal performance and like I said MEH as in I don't see a clear advantage due to power or capacity.
    You seem to put an awfully lot of faith in a second hit given how little you have in the first one.
     
  2. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,123
    Location:
    arizona
    thanks for the response. six rounds per opponent it is. so, i'm good for three opponents at all times.

    murf
     
    MrChicken likes this.
  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,405
    Unless, of course, they are shooting back.
     
    JR24 and MrChicken like this.
  4. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,360
    Once again
    I hate to quote myself … but sometimes you have to do it
     
  5. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    11,566
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    Was doing something else earlier today, and these photos came about. Some of which will be germane to our discussion.
    This is a Colt Gov't 380 on a SIG 365X
    Govt on Sig.jpg
    Seven of 9x17 versus 12 of 9x19

    And a SIG 365X on a Colt Officer's
    SIG on Officer's.jpg
    12 9x19 versus 6 .45acp
    The whole rogues gallery:
    Rogue's Gallery.jpg
    In the end, we are, in some ways, splitting hairs of mere millimeters. I've concealed all of these (ok, not the AO 1911A1 specifically, but a similar-sized 1911). My reasons--and methods--varied for each; but, I'm not entirely sure any one of those was "better."
    Would I look at a SIG 365 in 380, maybe; same way I'd look closely at the new LCP Max. I'm not selling anything to go get one, though.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  6. mavracer

    mavracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,610
    Location:
    wichita
    Handgunhero already has the LCP Max
    Here's it is with the P365 my biggest draw is the weight
    Screenshot_20210713-174327.png
    Screenshot_20210713-174726.png
     
  7. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,123
    Location:
    arizona
    don't be silly.

    murf
     
  8. Edcnh
    • Contributing Member

    Edcnh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Northern NH
    I pocket carry a 380 in the summer when wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I like the idea of a 10 round mag for the LCP Max. Will have to check one out when the craze ends. Not much available in my area right now.
     
  9. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,255
    Location:
    Statesboro,Georgia
    I also prefer a belt holster, so for me the extra ounces of a p365 in 9mm even with the 12 round magazine is not a problem. I'm always more comfortable with service calibers.
     
  10. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    14,723
    Location:
    Georgia
    Depends on the gun. I've always felt that 10+1 was enough for me to be comfortable with. Not 380, but I have a Sig 365 in 9mm that takes 10 or 12 round magazines. Having the 2 extra rounds doesn't feel like a game changer for me, but the longer grip when the 12 round mags are in the gun helps me shoot it more accurately. So that is a game changer. I like the option of using 10 round mags when concealment is paramount, and the 12 round mags when it is less important.
     
  11. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,360
    Yep , belt carry .. I like my Glock 23 or 27 ,
    40 S&W 180gr HST makes me feel warm and Cozy ..
    D35F35D9-346A-4D02-B903-DE98BF287497.jpeg 6F17104D-F759-4687-BF7B-13D96A39D8EA.jpeg
     
    jimbo555 likes this.
  12. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    8,090
    Location:
    SE GA
    It definitely changes the game of the discussion about these things….slightly.
     
    TarDevil and chicharrones like this.
  13. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,360
    Yep … people comparing a pocket hi-cap 380 to belt worn mini 9’s
    If I choose to carry on the belt might as well be a real pistol in a real caliber :rofl:
    Maybe my Glock 20 :rofl:
     
  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,405
    Anyone in a defensive situation would prefer to score hits on an attacker with a service caliber.

    Anyone who can carry a pistol with which one can reliably do that would be well served to carry it.

    But the rapidity of fire that may be needed in a defensive situation makes the use of a small, light pistol in a service caliber an iffy proposition.

    So, it depends on the gun.

    Forget shooting groups at the range. Go and participate in, and/or observe, a real defensive training course. If they offer an El Presidente drill, or a variation thereon, the purpose of which is simply to measure and increase shooting proficiency, compare the performance of shooters using full-size M&P pistols , Ruger American Pistols, and Sig duty pistols with those using smaller and lighter pistols in the same calibers.

    You will surely note that the performance of the shooters, becomes progressively worse as the sizes and weights of the pistols come down. It is not a matter of whether the shooters think they "can handle" the increased recoil, it is about whether they score hits rapidly enough with a gun that recoils more severely.

    In such a drill, and in a real use of force situation, most people will do better with a full-size duty pistol--as Buckeye puts it, "a real pistol in a real caliber".

    but most of us prefer to not carry duty pistols concealed all day. We compromise by carrying smaller pistols.

    Large numbers of shooters who have not participated in realistic training and have not thought in terms of a realistic balance of speed and accuracy have been selecting smaller and smaller pistols, having convinced themselves that that "service caliber" chambering will provide the effectiveness that they need.

    The Springfield XDS 9 is a case in point. The original with the 3.3 inch barrel was popular. When they introduced a version with a 4 inch barrel, Trainers and reviewers raved about how much more shootable it was. But due to lackluster sales, it was discontinued.

    I carried the 4 inch version. I would not carry the smaller one.

    I have a Ruger American Compact pistol Good gun--but I would not want one of their little 9s.

    Same with Messrs. Smith y Wesson. I'm okay with the EZ 9, but not with their small 9s.

    Yes, I too am more comfortable with service calibers--in the right guns.

    I recently decided to acquire a much smaller and lighter pistol, primarily for backup.

    I chose the LCP Max.
     
    Buckeye63 likes this.
  15. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,542
    .380 is a marginal caliber. Magazine capacity doesn't make up for its deficiencies (adequate penetration and/or mild wound effects).

    I've attached a link to a video in which an EDP is hit by 12 rounds. He's unaffected until bullet number 12 hits and disrupts his spinal cord, causing flaccid paralysis, and he immediately collapses to the pavement, where we watch him finally start reacting to the effects of hemorrhaging from the other 11 bullets (he's gasping for air because internal bleeding is causing his lungs to collapse as well as the effects of sucking chest wounds).

    Warning--this media shows a person getting shot fatally at close range. Don't watch it if that's going to bother you.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2021 at 1:58 AM
    CDW4ME likes this.
  16. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,405
    Can't argue with that.
     
  17. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,360
    Yep ..I do like the 380acp ,,
    But I agree ..With Kleanbore

    My favorite SD round is the 40 S&W
     
  18. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    453
    You state that .380 is a marginal caliber, yet show a video that demonstrates that shot placement was the thing that stopped the perpetrator?

     
    zaitcev and MedWheeler like this.
  19. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    SA, TX
    I've never been a .380 guy but the Ruger LCP Max has me thinking hard. Especially with the better ammo today.

    I think it's a great idea
     
    scaatylobo likes this.
  20. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,645
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    Triggernosis writes:

    Also, any situation resembling that one would have been easy for most any of us to avoid, or self-extract from. The cop, bound by duty to essentially instigate, and continue escalation of, the encounter, could not. The takeways from that video include that shot placement matters, and that, if you're obligated to stay in the situation (and force the attacker to as well by not allowing him to flee), the odds that the situation will become more desperate, and require more fire, will increase. This guy knew he wasn't going to be allowed to simply walk away.
     
  21. azrn

    azrn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    arizona
    a glock 30 with 10 rounds of 45 will do me just fine.
     
  22. DTL

    DTL Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2021
    Messages:
    160
    I bought the LCPII and just cannot fall in love with it, don't like the platform, and it's inconsistent cycling and hold open feature. Also if & when it does hold open on last round fired, returns to battery as soon as mag is dropped. It's going to be sold/traded for something else in the neat future.
     
  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,405
    Shot placement enabled by magazine capacity and adequate penetration,
     
    scaatylobo likes this.
  24. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,896
    Location:
    NC Coast
    ... and the shooter.

    The LC9s was smaller than I ever planned to carry, but back woes dictated a lighter gun and I remained committed to 9mm. It's all about practice.

    In four days surgery will, hopefully, enable me to again carry my pistol size of confidence.
     
  25. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,405
    If you are measuring group size on a target, yes.

    If you need very rapid controlled fire to land several hits very quickly on a target that is moving at 180 inches per second, no.

    It's all about physics.
     
    scaatylobo likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice