Kachok
Member
A Vmax makes a good deer round?!?!? Well I guess you learn somthing new every day. I always thought Vmax was a little lightly constructed for anything larger then a yote, but I have never really used them before either.
110 grain 30 cal in A .308 for hunting coyote and deer?
- Thread starter unwise11
- Start date
- Status
Harley Quinn
Member
The ability to stabilize a 100 grain in 6 mm (actually named 244 then) was the downfall of Remington when they offered a 90 grain in a barrel that was not fast enough to stabilize a 100 grainer
243 Win, won that contest...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Remington
Have come a long way since then...
The 223 is another who switched the twist a lot with heavier bullets... So yea, it is a bit confusing for some
Bottom line is you have to reload, have a bunch to put through the barrel and see what your particular rifle will do well with...
The hotter bullets take the life out of a barrel very fast... 264 Win Mag in a Rem rifle comes to mind.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-264-winchester-magnum#close
PS..Have read also don't over clean the barrel several articles on it...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1124298
Regards
243 Win, won that contest...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Remington
Have come a long way since then...
The 223 is another who switched the twist a lot with heavier bullets... So yea, it is a bit confusing for some
Bottom line is you have to reload, have a bunch to put through the barrel and see what your particular rifle will do well with...
The hotter bullets take the life out of a barrel very fast... 264 Win Mag in a Rem rifle comes to mind.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-264-winchester-magnum#close
PS..Have read also don't over clean the barrel several articles on it...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1124298
Regards
unwise11
Member
Thanks guys. I have some bullets saved on my computer, might order, but some of this has convinced me to stick with a regular load. Im thinking 150 grain SST or 168 grain A-max or 165 Interlock, and the V-max 110 grain for yotes. Orr.. just a 150 grain SST for everything.
Kachok
Member
I don't know about the A-max, it was not designed as a hunting bullet although a few people have used them as such. SSTs rock though.
Daniel Boone
Member
That twist rate with the velocities you have will not stabilize a 220gr bullet. And just to be clear, it isn't the weight, it is the length of the bullet.
Do some research on "The Greenhill Formula." Look for a program that calculates it and see what length bullet your rife will stabilize.
__________________
It all depends - the reason I say that is because a heavier bullet has to be longer to hold the weight. So it stands to reason that the heavier bullet will be longer and easier to stabilize from the standpoint of a boat tail bullet - which is more aerodynamic - but not all hunting bullets are boat tails.
I used this analogy on another forum and got flamed for doing so.
By using the Greenhill formula - we know that the twist rate for a 150 gr 30 caliber bullet flying 2800 FPS is about 10.9
That is the reason why Howa and some other manufacturers uses a twist rate of about 1:10 in their 30 caliber - 22 inch barrel.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm
When you use a 180 bullet - you need a different twist rate to properly stabilize the bullet... There is all kinds of theory's on how fast the bullet is spinning when it is flying through the air and how much it spins when it hits the target and how little it decreases in RPM when it flies long distances compared to the velocity that it burns off while it flies through the air.
The 180 gr bullet in a 30-06 displaces some cartridge case capacity and so it cannot hold as much powder and so it cannot fly as fast as the 150 gr bullet can and so that is the reason why it holds more energy down range - but flies slower then the 150 gr bullet.
The US Military found this out way back in 1905 and modified the 30-03 to be a 30 caliber round with a 150 gr bullet - adopted in 1906 - hence the rifle it was shot out of was called a Springfield and the name stuck. 30-06 Springfield.
The original round was designed to replace the 30 Military - 30/40 Krag - which was a smokeless powder cartridge, that was only used by the US Military for about 16 years from the time it was developed until it was phased out and the 30-06 was brought on board.
The original 30-03 was designed by people who fought in the US Civil war and did not understand that it did not take a large bullet to kill or injure a human. The original round used a 220 gr bullet and did not perform any better then the 30-40 Krag that it replaced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-40_Krag
Do some research on "The Greenhill Formula." Look for a program that calculates it and see what length bullet your rife will stabilize.
__________________
It all depends - the reason I say that is because a heavier bullet has to be longer to hold the weight. So it stands to reason that the heavier bullet will be longer and easier to stabilize from the standpoint of a boat tail bullet - which is more aerodynamic - but not all hunting bullets are boat tails.
I used this analogy on another forum and got flamed for doing so.
By using the Greenhill formula - we know that the twist rate for a 150 gr 30 caliber bullet flying 2800 FPS is about 10.9
That is the reason why Howa and some other manufacturers uses a twist rate of about 1:10 in their 30 caliber - 22 inch barrel.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm
When you use a 180 bullet - you need a different twist rate to properly stabilize the bullet... There is all kinds of theory's on how fast the bullet is spinning when it is flying through the air and how much it spins when it hits the target and how little it decreases in RPM when it flies long distances compared to the velocity that it burns off while it flies through the air.
The 180 gr bullet in a 30-06 displaces some cartridge case capacity and so it cannot hold as much powder and so it cannot fly as fast as the 150 gr bullet can and so that is the reason why it holds more energy down range - but flies slower then the 150 gr bullet.
The US Military found this out way back in 1905 and modified the 30-03 to be a 30 caliber round with a 150 gr bullet - adopted in 1906 - hence the rifle it was shot out of was called a Springfield and the name stuck. 30-06 Springfield.
The original round was designed to replace the 30 Military - 30/40 Krag - which was a smokeless powder cartridge, that was only used by the US Military for about 16 years from the time it was developed until it was phased out and the 30-06 was brought on board.
The original 30-03 was designed by people who fought in the US Civil war and did not understand that it did not take a large bullet to kill or injure a human. The original round used a 220 gr bullet and did not perform any better then the 30-40 Krag that it replaced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-40_Krag
Last edited:
unwise11
Member
huh, I understand this. and now have the urge to shoot 220 grainers or 200's to see if i cant prove you wrong.
Im trying to get the loads worked out this month by the rangemaster who loads.
Im trying to get the loads worked out this month by the rangemaster who loads.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I've had a bunch of dropped-right-there deer kills with the Sierra 150-grain bullet from my '06, both flat-based and boat-tailed. Closest was 30 yards, maybe less; longest, 450. Mostly in the 150 to 250 range.
A few poor, innocent coyotes were rather displeased, as well. They were so upset that they just lay down and quit, not going anywhere. Seemed to have lost a good bit of weight, also...
A few poor, innocent coyotes were rather displeased, as well. They were so upset that they just lay down and quit, not going anywhere. Seemed to have lost a good bit of weight, also...
unwise11
Member
well. this thread has become very conflicting MODs. please close for me.
I have decided to have 2 loads. and know how to adjust my scope.
I have decided to have 2 loads. and know how to adjust my scope.
Sunray
Member
"...easier to convince farmers to let me..." That's not about the bullet or cartridge you use. It's about trust and respect. Closing gates that were closed, not damaging anything or leaving a mess of any kind. So does offering your help with whatever you can. Sharing any game you kill helps too.
Politely asking for permission, not on Sunday or having a rifle with you or wearing any cammies, matters too. If a farmer says no, thank him and leave. Doesn't hurt to ask if he knows somebody though. You strike me as a guy who understands polite.
"...by saying..." They know better. BSing 'em won't help your cause.
Your Howa the only rifle you have? Good deer rifle, but the .308 is a bit much for coyotes. It'll certainly do the job if your rifle shoots light bullets well enough, but it'll be loud. Had a dairy farmer comment about how loud my .243 is, long ago. Loud, apparently matters.
110 grain bullets are made for the .30 Carbine. A 110 grain HP blows a hole the size of a grapefruit in a ground hog out of a .30 Carbine.
"...Why is it that a fast twist does not stabilize lighter bullets?..." That isn't a fast twist for a .30 calibre. 1 in 10 is a standard .30 cal twist for 147/150 and up bullets. Light bullets are shorter, so there isn't as much bullet to catch the rifling, for lack of a better term. Try a 125 or 130.
"...this thread has become very conflicting..." Happens on internet forums. Opinions being whatthey are. You have provided an excellent discussion topic. Thanks.
What load did you decide on?
Politely asking for permission, not on Sunday or having a rifle with you or wearing any cammies, matters too. If a farmer says no, thank him and leave. Doesn't hurt to ask if he knows somebody though. You strike me as a guy who understands polite.
"...by saying..." They know better. BSing 'em won't help your cause.
Your Howa the only rifle you have? Good deer rifle, but the .308 is a bit much for coyotes. It'll certainly do the job if your rifle shoots light bullets well enough, but it'll be loud. Had a dairy farmer comment about how loud my .243 is, long ago. Loud, apparently matters.
110 grain bullets are made for the .30 Carbine. A 110 grain HP blows a hole the size of a grapefruit in a ground hog out of a .30 Carbine.
"...Why is it that a fast twist does not stabilize lighter bullets?..." That isn't a fast twist for a .30 calibre. 1 in 10 is a standard .30 cal twist for 147/150 and up bullets. Light bullets are shorter, so there isn't as much bullet to catch the rifling, for lack of a better term. Try a 125 or 130.
"...this thread has become very conflicting..." Happens on internet forums. Opinions being whatthey are. You have provided an excellent discussion topic. Thanks.
What load did you decide on?
Last edited:
unwise11
Member
I decided on 2 loads to be handloaded.
a slow 200 grain softpoint.
and a HOTT 168 grain BTHP load.
my coydog loads will be federal 150 gr softpoints.
I decided it because after doing EXTENSIVE, and I mean it. research, a 150 grain will be better. and im not concerned about overkill on the 'yotes. they will be removed, and dumped somewhere else.
I would rather have deer drop like rocks than have nice coyote pelts and lost deer.
a slow 200 grain softpoint.
and a HOTT 168 grain BTHP load.
my coydog loads will be federal 150 gr softpoints.
I decided it because after doing EXTENSIVE, and I mean it. research, a 150 grain will be better. and im not concerned about overkill on the 'yotes. they will be removed, and dumped somewhere else.
I would rather have deer drop like rocks than have nice coyote pelts and lost deer.
- Status
