12GA Rifle From HELL--

[hubel458]

There are now two videos of 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled pails of water.
The "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and "Grandpa's First Shot" a closeup video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil.
Also the 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
above goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed

 

[hubel458]

I've got extra 28ga alloy rifled barrel now.
So along with first one in Enfield I will be doing one
in Mossberg 695 bolt action. Will add a little weight
to the stock and one of kids will see how it does on
deer this fall.Ed

Oh here is URL of the Grandpa's First Shot Video--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48zTpsgbuk

 

[Vicious-Peanut]

The NEF really has me intrigued. How heavy of slugs can it shoot accurately?

 

[hubel458]

It shoots 600gr very well, and
should do 730 gr and 870gr.For deer bear, and hogs these should work.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is pic of Mossberg 695 that will be the
second 28GA From Hell.You can see long
brass case in the port. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Somebody suggested this picture to show the
difference between shotgun powder, factory loads
and our loads in plastic and brass as it relates to
increased powder capacity. Factory 3rd case with
small amount of powder(more wads), 2nd case plastic with
larger amount(less wads), 1st, brass case all powder.
This allows us more volume of slower powder.
Also the Videos, 'Grandpa's Cannon', 'Grandpa's First
Shot', are heading up to 3000 views on Youtube.
Any of you who could pass info about the videos out
over the net, I'd appreciate it. Ed

 

[craiger111]

How about 30mm shells I've got some..... All aluminum....shells

 

[hubel458]

They'd make a 1 bore or gauge,
if someone needed one.Ed

 

[John Ross]

I just found this thread and read all 14 pages nonstop. Fascinating. As some of you know, I've done development work with the 4-bore and to a lesser extent, the 2-bore. Both on expensive custom Farquharson falling block actions, and a 4-bore double rifle.

I am intrigued about the lower-cost big-bore options out there using bolt action and single shot shotgun platforms.

Some years ago a distributor had a closeout on Browning A-bolt rifled 12 gauge guns and I bought one, planning to do something similar. About a week later I had my stroke and the gun's been in the safe ever since. Comments about this platform?

Ed, would you post a list of all the strong shotgun actions out there that are suitable for this kind of development, and your comments on each? This is great stuff.

FWIW here's the dope on the 4-bores:

The double shoots a .973" diameter 2130 grain cast bullet at 1410 FPS using 450 grains of FG black powder. Killed two elephant and two buffalo in 1983 in Zimbabwe with this load. Penetration: Shot an elephant broadside through the heart twice and both bullets exited.

For the modern 4-bore I worked up in the Farquharson with 1.000" groove diameter:

Using turned brass 4" cases with 3/4" diameter powder column (about .200" thick walls below the bullet seating area) I used 190 grains of 4895 and got 1900 FPS with an 1850 grain jacketed soft point (swaged in a die I made using an OWS Rock Crusher press.) Pressures very low. Gun weighs 24 lbs. and I have shot 50 of these in one sitting. Scoped and off sandbags it cuts clover leaves at 50 yards.

Kent Lomont has gone up to a 2300 grain cast bullet at 2400 FPS using full capacity cases but I haven't been willing to go that heavy yet because of my stroke and the fear that I'd drop the gun.

Keep the data coming...

JR

 

[Poor East Texan]

Simply AWESOME!

I'm a wimp you see and don't even really like shooting my Finnish M39.... OR my Rem 870.

 

[hubel458]

Poor East Texan-- With our guns set up right-- thick pad--
enough weight, and most important proper balance, they
shoot much nicer than an 870 with magnum loads.

John--Good to hear from you--I saw you the other night on
the tube talking about your specially built 500 S&W. I taped
it also.

We have a 4bore case made from 20mm brass that is exact
same size and bore as the 4bore cases Ken Owen had built
for the 4bore doubles he made-- .998-1.000" rifled bore, using the
2000 grain slugs that Lynn Hull makes at Naval Ordnance.
I have cases, slugs, a barrel, and got to build an action.
Did Clayton ever have have any extras, of the big actions
like the 4bore ones he did for you. Just actions.

Good 12ga actions-- 1st with just lenthening chamber the
NEF 12GA Ultra Slug Gun, SB2 frame. least expensive.

In bolt guns adding a heavy barrel-- Savage 210, Mossberg
395-495-695, Browning bolt 12ga, Tarhunt, all being used as
a singleshot with long cases.

Pumpguns using shorter case, with heavier alloy barrels, Benelli,
Ithaca. 870, etc using our fast rifle powder loads, in plastic.

In O/U the new Zoli alloy action with alloy barrel. In SxS the
Zabala E-213 alloy action and alloy barrel.

If you get a chance please come over to Big Bore forum on
Accurate Arms and post on our 12GA FH threads. Its been going
for 2.5 years also.Ed

 

[John Ross]

Ed, Clayton made no lone actions to my knowledge. I can't find any forums at the Accurate Arms website, and Google didn't help. Link? [Edited: Found it--JR]

JR

P.S. I'm pretty sure I already have one of those heavy breakopen single shot slug guns built on the 10 ga. frame that I bought to shoot up a bunch of slug loads I got cheap. Didn't they come out about 12 years ago?

 

[hubel458]

John- yes in 90s. If they are the
right 10 or 12ga they will have the
SB2 model number.That is a heat
treated alloy action. You can't do our heavy loads on the non alloy
SB1 frame(Pardner).Alot of guys are
getting the 12ga Ultras chambers
lengthened to 3.5". We did ours to 3.85" for case we made.We have
Rocky MTn Cartridge going to make
3.5" heavy cases.

 

[John Ross]

Ed--joined the other forum yesterday but I'm not approved yet. Maybe someone blackballed me... ;-)

I'll check my gun and if it's the wrong one I'll get the other.

Can't find a pic of the big Borchardt 12FH. . Links are broken. Got one that works?

JR

P.S. What is it about heavy recoil that's so addicting? People tell me the look on my face when I touch off my 5" .500 makes them think the gun is administering a drug or something. 510 grain at 1740FPS.

 

[hubel458]

JR-- I see links are not hosted also. I'll see if
Rob can send the Borchardt pic and I will host it.
It is such a beautiful gun it should be always
around to look at.

On your NEF-- if it is 10 gauge we also got one and
tested fast rifle powder loads in 3.5" plastic cases
Got 1 3/4 oz slug up to 1800..Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is closeup picture of Rob's 12GA FH Borchardt.
The long brass case shown has one of Rob's 2000
grain solid bore rider 12ga slugs. Ed

 

[hubel458]

I got my long 700 HE case chambered barrel
finally in a bmg size action. It is barrel
I locked onto an I-beam and got all the
load developement done over the last couple
years. Max load about 23,000 ft lbs.
It weighs 27 lbs, laminated thumbhole stock,
a max size pad, weighted butt, a reinforced
wrist, recoil barrel ring on front of stock.Ed

 

[Poor East Texan]

I'm not all ready to jump up and down and say "Let me shoot it"....

But WOWSERS!

 

[hubel458]

Will work with light moderate loads
of 12-15,000 ft lbs. That is what
most guys will shoot easy. It actually
shoots easier than first 12ga FH,
at the same power levels,
as it has a better stock design.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is comparison picture of my 700HE, that
is in the big action shown above, on the right in
pic, with a 700NE on left and our 12GA FH
in the center.Ed

 

[Remo-99]

Well done there Ed, you've found a way to push 12ga slugs to rifle velocities. I've been trying to push 12ga slugs as fast as possible for years, while the diameter of the slugs creates a large wound channel, they kinda lack the fast knockdown of hydro-shock that rifle velocities cause, and i'm sure those rounds would have plenty of hydro-compressive shock as seen by the pics of the water pale. Many years ago i was experimenting with some multi-stage/charge loads in my .410 with rifled slugs. They featured a brass case with 2-3 fast burning powder charges seperated by a thick wad with a flash hole to delay ignition of the next stage/charge just by a fraction to keep the peak pressures in check, without the wads in place the total powder charge would've surely caused pressure issues, but after many firings with the powder seperaters in place i had no issues at all, although i never chrono'd these loads, they were going pretty damn fast, as soon as the shot was touched off, it was wacking the target, down range around 150 yards. I would have liked to develop a load for 12ga slugs, but at the time was unable to get 12ga brass cases. I'm pretty sure you could get some spectactulor velocities using 7/8 to 1oz rifled slugs, with some development of multi stage charges, given you got +30,000psi as a max. to work with...

 

[Poor East Texan]

This is some INSANELY cool stuff!

I'm a bit of a wuss however and don't reload.

A 12g slug moving over 2K fps would do a number on a critter fer sure!

 

[hubel458]

We have kept peak pressures low,
and the pressure curve averaging
high with slower powders , than
using shotgun powders. And it worked
out for better velocity.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a neat scaled up Sharps replica
that would handle out 12GA FH and my 700HE.
That outside hammer looks great. From a magazine
article in Very High Power...Ed

 

[exar]

Cool, a Sharps .50 BMG!