16" or 20" AR?
- Thread starter kennygarza
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Good choice. Just a few more things...
1. If you want a 16" middy then ignore the "Colt" advice. Colt makes some nice stuff but they have yet to get with the times and make a barrel with the mid-length gas system. I wish they would but they don't
2. What ever barrel you get, make sure it's chrome lined. It really does make a difference in both reliability and ease of maintenance.
3. Do not get an HBAR profile barrel, especially in a mid-length or or rifle gas system. Not only do they weigh to much but they also screw up the balance of the weapon, especially if you go with a collapsible stock.
I have a RRA 16" middy barrel that is chrome lined and was turned down by ADCO to a government profile. Even with the re-profiling, the gun is still a little front heavy. Luckily I use a fixed A1 length stock on it so it's not too bad but I did put it on another lower with a collapsible stock and the balance sucked. If it was an HBAR, I guarantee I would have hated it with either stock.
When I bought it, it was one of the only choices out there for a 16" middy and so far, it has performed well. That said, I think there are better choices out there now. Saber Defense makes a nice middy that comes profiled and chrome lined and can be had with 1/7 twist and M4 feedramps. Both are nice options if you plan to use and of the newer heavier rounds. (standard ramps and 1/9 is fine for your typical 55gr loads.). Bravo company is also getting ready to release some 16" middy uppers that should be really nice.
Spend some time on AR15.com. Look around and become familiar with what's available before spending your money.
Dude, kennygarza wrote that he decided to get a 16" barrel with mid-length gas system. As you should be aware, Colt does not make any barrels with a mid-length gas system so there for your advice to buy a Colt is useless to this conversation.
Try to keep up.
I went with a 16" mid length.
I got this one: http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=127&products_id=311
I got this one: http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=127&products_id=311
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Speaking of which, how are you liking the Sabre rifle?
Do you own a Mid-length carbine? Have you ever even shot one? As a person who owns both a Colt 14.5" carbine and an RRA 16" mid-length carbine I can tell you from first hand experience that the Mid-length gas system is the right answer that Colt should have been smart enough to come up with in the first place. I will agree that a well built carbine gas system weapon (Colt or otherwise) can be a very reliable and effective weapon but the mid-length gas system has a number advantages and is the better design IMO.
In an effort to keep this thread from getting too far off track or into a full on pissing match, that will be my last reply about that.
Stevie-Ray
Member
I'd opt for the 16. I bought a shorty, because if I want to reach out to touch something, I've got a heavy-barrel SAR-48.
A friend I work with recently tempted me to get into AR-15's. In considering what to get for my first, I immediately dismissed Colt as an option, because I already knew from my experience with M16-A2's that Colt knew how to make them. To maximize the experience, I decided to assemble my own 16" carbine from stricly non-Colt parts, but I had to promise my Mrs. that I would keep the project cost down. I bought a very nice RRA stripped lower at Knoxville's best gun store, Coal Creek Armory . I liked the lower receiver enough that I determined to finish it out with a lower parts kit and an A2 buttstock kit ordered through RRA's website. FWIW, the lower parts seem to be identical to those of Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite, and, for all I can tell, these may all really be made by only one or two manufacturers. For the upper half, I looked at a lot of options, and was tempted by some of the sexy, expensive ones, but kept my word to the Mrs. on the budget, because I'm not crazy. Fortunately, I was able to make the excuse with my wife that I had to spend a LOT of time lurking at ARFCOM, and browsing lots of AR-15 industry vendor sites, in order to put together the best possible upper half within the promised budget
. It was interesting to consider all the available options, but I carefully chose a not-so-interesting option, that of a complete RRA CAR A4 upper, with mid-length gas system, and Wilson 16" stainless HBAR, with 1X8" twist and .223 Wylde chamber, which I ordered from Legal Transfers (thanks, Pete). Effectively, I will end up with a RRA Elite CAR A4, with an A2 buttstock. I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for delivery of the upper, as barrels seem to be back-ordered at RRA, which means I'll also have to wait to find out whether the RRA carbine will prove to be the quality/performance/cost value I hope I've correctly reasoned it will be. That's OK, because I'll have to wait until I get payed again before I can buy the requisite case of M855. I'd love to do some kind of high round count torture test, but I'm going to need the money for another carbine, because watching over my shoulder has gotten my wife infected with Teh BRD, and she now wants one of her own.
. I liked the lower receiver enough that I determined to finish it out with a lower parts kit and an A2 buttstock kit ordered through RRA's website. FWIW, the lower parts seem to be identical to those of Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite, and, for all I can tell, these may all really be made by only one or two manufacturers. For the upper half, I looked at a lot of options, and was tempted by some of the sexy, expensive ones, but kept my word to the Mrs. on the budget, because I'm not crazy. Fortunately, I was able to make the excuse with my wife that I had to spend a LOT of time lurking at ARFCOM, and browsing lots of AR-15 industry vendor sites, in order to put together the best possible upper half within the promised budget . It was interesting to consider all the available options, but I carefully chose a not-so-interesting option, that of a complete RRA CAR A4 upper, with mid-length gas system, and Wilson 16" stainless HBAR, with 1X8" twist and .223 Wylde chamber, which I ordered from Legal Transfers (thanks, Pete). Effectively, I will end up with a RRA Elite CAR A4, with an A2 buttstock. I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for delivery of the upper, as barrels seem to be back-ordered at RRA, which means I'll also have to wait to find out whether the RRA carbine will prove to be the quality/performance/cost value I hope I've correctly reasoned it will be. That's OK, because I'll have to wait until I get payed again before I can buy the requisite case of M855. I'd love to do some kind of high round count torture test, but I'm going to need the money for another carbine, because watching over my shoulder has gotten my wife infected with Teh BRD, and she now wants one of her own.Chipperman
Member
"If you get a Dissipator, strongly consider getting a M4-profile or fluted barrel. Everyone with an HBAR Dissy says that it's muzzle-heavy, but I got the M4-profile Dissy barrel from Bushmaster and it balances just great."
I have a HBAR Dissy and love it. It does not feel especially muzzle heavy to me-- but I also shoot a lof of heavy rifles, so any AR feels light to me.
I have a HBAR Dissy and love it. It does not feel especially muzzle heavy to me-- but I also shoot a lof of heavy rifles, so any AR feels light to me.
lycanthrope
Member
Get the 16" first.....but don't kid yourself......
You're going to buy a 20" down the line anyhow. You won't be able to help yourself.
(Get Both)
You're going to buy a 20" down the line anyhow. You won't be able to help yourself.
(Get Both)
I reviewed my post of 2:30AM and realized that I had rambled on without getting to my point, which was that I'm betting my $829 (including a Hogue grip, GG&G side sling adapter, and Specter sling) RRA carbine will compare quite well with anything offered by Colt. But anyway...
I don't intend to dispute the usefulness of the quad rail forends at all, and I still find the hardware-laden carbines light, but, if I were looking to shed weight from a rifle, I'd probably have to ditch the flashlight and the kickstand before going with a thinner barrel. To me, the best advantage of the 16" carbines is that they are shorter.
Completely agree. I think there's a bit too much made over light profile barrels. You go with a pencil-thin barrel to save weight, then add a 10 or 12 oz free float tube (usually the quad-rail type, of course) to eliminate torquing that thin barrel, then you have to use every available inch of that quad-rail "real estate" to hang a pound or more of hardware from the forend of your rifle. All said, you only end up exceeding the weight of a less-laden HBAR carbine by maybe a little less than a pound.
I don't intend to dispute the usefulness of the quad rail forends at all, and I still find the hardware-laden carbines light, but, if I were looking to shed weight from a rifle, I'd probably have to ditch the flashlight and the kickstand before going with a thinner barrel. To me, the best advantage of the 16" carbines is that they are shorter.Zach S
Member
To me, the HBAR carbines balance something like the government profile rifles. I never really thought a plain jane, untacticool AR was front heavy until I picked up a HBAR rifle.
TacticalM4
Member
For Fun shooting only, I would only recommend the 16"... I wouldn't want a 20" ever, I think you would regret getting anything over 16" unless you like the old M16 look. I'm actually thinking of going to a 14.5" Military spec M4 barrell..
The 16" seems a bit long for my carbine.. then again I do have the Superlight 16" Bushmaster barrell.
The 16" seems a bit long for my carbine.. then again I do have the Superlight 16" Bushmaster barrell.
I'm going to get myself a midlength RRA out of this group buy, but I think I'm going to put a low profile gas block, and a rifle length float tube over it, for a mid-length dissipator. I've not owned a mid-length before, but I like the idea.
engineer151515
Member
Of those two 16" I have, one is a M4 CAR profile. The other is a Bushmaster 16" HBAR configuration.
The HBAR is nose heavy relative to the CAR - barrel lengths being equal. Not ungainly though. The HBAR is suppose to perform better under sustained fire situations, handing the heat buildup better. But heat is probably not a concern to the average range shooter.
The HBAR is nose heavy relative to the CAR - barrel lengths being equal. Not ungainly though. The HBAR is suppose to perform better under sustained fire situations, handing the heat buildup better. But heat is probably not a concern to the average range shooter.
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