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Is there a reason why you would prefer they be ASM? Are they higher quality than other makers?
1849 Pocket .31 Italian Cased Set
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expat_alaska
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LOL! I pretty much figured it would come to that. I don't think you overpaid, even if it was out of my realm currently.
As Jaymo stated in post #18, current prices for Pocket .31 models (Uberti, whom else?) are at least $350 per copy at last check. IMO, the case is superb. With the accoutrements, to create that set today would be about $1K, and you have the added shipping costs for all of the items. The seller stated $25 shipping cost USPS Priority Mail for the sell, which I think is a bit low.
You done good!
Regards,
Jim
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expat_alaska
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Back in the day (early 70's-80's) ASM was giving Pietta and Uberti a good run for their money. ASM revolvers of that era were known to be fairly precise reproductions of original revolver (especially the shoulder stocked Dragoons). I believe what caused ASM's demise is that they never went to CNC machining like Pietta and Uberti did ~2002, and ASM closed up in 2002 under a different name.
The ASM Pocket revolvers of the 60's were fairly accurate historically (with one exception, below), but used fairly soft steel which caused many astute buyers to disdain them. Quality of steel improved dramatically in the 70's.
The one true teller if a Pocket .31 was an ASM was the peculiar shape of the shoulders at the rear of the trigger guard, which are sloped rather than being more squared as the Uberti and other smaller Northern Italian manufacturers produced. To me it is quite an anomaly, but ASM (to my knowledge) never deviated from that shape. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Here are two ASM 1848 Pocket .31 revolvers from the 60's. Notice the trigger guard profile. ASM was very historically accurate otherwise as the revolvers had the squareback TG, short frame, short forcing cone, shallow V-notch load aperture.
IMO, the cased set revolvers are not ASM revolvers. I am going out on a limb, without inspection, that they could be Armi San Paulo, Euroarms, COM, or some other obscure Northern Italian manufacturer, and that they are two different guns. I am very curious as to any date codes, proof marks, or any other markings to include serial numbers and anything inside the revolvers. IMO, the gripframe assemblies of each revolver are different in size.
At any rate, I believe they were special enough to the original owner to add the faux ivory inlaid grips and create the cased set as seen.
I am sure Mr. Kibbey will enlighten us shortly.
Regards,
Jim
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
Jim has mentioned most of what I would say about ASM but I will add:
They were advertised as having parts that interchanged with 1st. gen Colts in the EMF catalogs (so much so that they were bought by collectors needing to repair their originals) and so they look and heft like 1st. gens..
They out did all the competition in the variants that they produced for each model so they are a gold mine for a collector on a budget.
The mechanical quality was good unless you were into competition shooting and shot them around the clock.
The fit and finish was as good or better than any other Italian maker (love their case coloring.)
They produced a variant of most of their models in the eighties that had correctly Colt marked barrels and cylinders which are fairly rare.
There is a theory that these were produced for Colt at some point in the 2nd or 3rd gen lines and then orphaned by Colt when they stopped production.
I have noticed some ASM models with barrel addresses that read with the correct barrel address as held in the right hand as on real Colt products and I have found others where the address is correct but reads correctly when the revolver is held in the left hand. The right hand specimens seem harder to find and appear to be of a better blue finish than the left hand ones (although they are both better than unmarked ASM's.)
Willie Sutton and El Hombre were discussing these Colt marked ASM's many years back on THR and the thread caught my interest so I started collecting ASM primarily and especially those with Colt markings.
Unlike Uberti and Pietta, there will never be any more Armi San Marco products made which means their value will increase just like any other limited resource for which there is a demand.
My interest in these is mainly to see if they are a very rare variant of ASM pocket pistol in which case they are MINE!!! If not, I will just enjoy the thrill of discovering what they are.
It all goes back to the joy of opening presents as a child on Christmas morning!
The joy of finding treasure.
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expat_alaska
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I concur! Since both Pietta and Uberti went to CNC in ~2002, the case colors are very vibrant, unlike their pre-CNC revolvers. As you stated, ASM case colors are more subdued like original Colts.
The "smaller" of the two revolvers has the subdued frame case colors as well as what appears to be a plain (?) cylinder, while the other has more vibrant colors and an engraved cylinder. IMO these revolvers are not related insofar as manufacture.
We are awaiting your verdict!
Regards,
Jim
1KPerDay
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Thanks for the thorough response. Merry Christmas!
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
Ron at Ron's Gunshop returned my call this morning during my zoom with the kids and grandkids and left a message that he would be in the shop all day so I called him back after we opened presents. I gave him my charge info and he sent me the tracking number a little bit ago. He said it would be in the priority mail tomorrow from Wisconsin. Waitin' & Watchin'!
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
Preliminary report!
They arrived late today so no pictures yet, maybe tomorrow or Monday?
Sadly for me, they are not ASM products and after I have enjoyed examining them, I will offer them at my cost plus shipping here at THR as described above.
If there are no takers, I may just keep them as they make "a pretty pair!"
Both are mint Uberti stagecoach holdup marked 1849 Colt Pocket replicas.
One has the "U" inside the muzzle of an octagonal barrel Uberti logo clearly stamped on the underside of the frame in front of the trigger guard along with a serial number, proofs and the Italian date code.
The other one has the logo partially marked on the underside of the barrel hidden by the loading lever where ASP often conceals its circled "DGG" logo.
I can understand the seller not recognizing the Uberti logo but I find it weird that he said they had NO markings, not even serial numbers.
Maybe his eyesight is even worse than mine!?!
One of them has a "BB" date code for 1992 and the other is marked "BD" for 1994.
More to follow!
They arrived late today so no pictures yet, maybe tomorrow or Monday?
Sadly for me, they are not ASM products and after I have enjoyed examining them, I will offer them at my cost plus shipping here at THR as described above.
If there are no takers, I may just keep them as they make "a pretty pair!"
Both are mint Uberti stagecoach holdup marked 1849 Colt Pocket replicas.
One has the "U" inside the muzzle of an octagonal barrel Uberti logo clearly stamped on the underside of the frame in front of the trigger guard along with a serial number, proofs and the Italian date code.
The other one has the logo partially marked on the underside of the barrel hidden by the loading lever where ASP often conceals its circled "DGG" logo.
I can understand the seller not recognizing the Uberti logo but I find it weird that he said they had NO markings, not even serial numbers.
Maybe his eyesight is even worse than mine!?!
One of them has a "BB" date code for 1992 and the other is marked "BD" for 1994.
More to follow!
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expat_alaska
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Sorry it did not turn out as a set of ASM's.
I still think it was a worthwhile price.
Regards,
Jim
I still think it was a worthwhile price.
Regards,
Jim
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
The first of the pair is the BB 1992 SN 02002:
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
The one above has two slight repairs that need to be made:
This one's grips' silver buffalos were in the case and will need to be re-glued! Note that the gray lines on the grips are "imitation cracking" and the faux ivory grips on both revolvers are in perfect shape other than needing the above gluing on this one.
This one's grips' silver buffalos were in the case and will need to be re-glued! Note that the gray lines on the grips are "imitation cracking" and the faux ivory grips on both revolvers are in perfect shape other than needing the above gluing on this one.
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
The second of the pair is the BD 1994 SN 03243:
The grips on this one are as shown in the Gun Broker picture below:
The grips on this one are as shown in the Gun Broker picture below:
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Ephraim Kibbey
Member
They are very well done Ivory imitations.
The gray lines have slight indentation as an imitation of a surface crack.
They fit perfectly on both revolvers.
They are substantial and feel like they are truly one piece as opposed to two hollow glued together halves.
I imagine the material is some sort of composite as opposed to plastic or natural but I am no expert.
All of the pictures that I found on the internet that resembled them turned out to be genuine ivory grips on first gen. Colts.
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
An added note, there was no nipple wrench in the set but they are available here:
https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?searchWord=nipple wrench&pid=413&offset=0
I bagged all the loose oxidized lead balls and conicals.
https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?searchWord=nipple wrench&pid=413&offset=0
I bagged all the loose oxidized lead balls and conicals.
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