1851 navy 36 caliber for deer and hogs will it be enough?

[maint1517]

Guys, just ignore him. Everyone's entitled to post their opinions. But every time he posts in this thread it's the same thing.
CraigC, I respect your opinions and discussions. But why tell others what they should discuss in this or any other thread?

 

[CraigC]

I don't care what you discuss or why. It is simply my opinion that the .22 references are silly and unproductive. This computes in my brain as "one time, at band camp, a skinny African killed an elephant with a slingshot so since an atlatl is more effective than a slingshot, hunting elephants with atlatl's is a good idea". If that's the kind of discussion you want to have, I'll leave you to it.

I view this thread as perpetrated by folks who don't want the truth but have already made up their mind that the "stunt" in question is a good idea and any opinion that conflicts with it is arbitrarily dismissed in favor of myth & legend. If you think myth & legend regarding the .45Colt or .44 Dragoon and horses, or anecdotal crap regarding trapped hogs and .22's is evidence to support your stunt, then have at it. All of which is also fine but if you're looking for support for said "stunt", you're going to be hard pressed to find it. Sorry but our wild game, as well as the community here, deserve better. Go forth with the stunt, I look forward to the report. I hope you don't wound an unsuspecting critter or break the law in the process of satisfying your curiosity.

 

[maint1517]

I view this thread as perpetrated by folks who don't want the truth but have already made up their mind that the "stunt" in question is a good idea and any opinion that conflicts with it is arbitrarily dismissed in favor of myth & legend.

When I did CPR on an unresponsive patient for 20 minutes waiting for the ambulance to arrive,while he was bleeding out internally. There was no myth or legend to that.
THAT is the discussion you jumped into this time.
Not shooting a hog with a.22 other than my recommending against it at the end of my post.

 

[CraigC]

And still irrelevant.

 

[rodwha]

I don't care what you discuss or why. It is simply my opinion that the .22 references are silly and unproductive. This computes in my brain as "one time, at band camp, a skinny African killed an elephant with a slingshot so since an atlatl is more effective than a slingshot, hunting elephants with atlatl's is a good idea". If that's the kind of discussion you want to have, I'll leave you to it.

I view this thread as perpetrated by folks who don't want the truth but have already made up their mind that the "stunt" in question is a good idea and any opinion that conflicts with it is arbitrarily dismissed in favor of myth & legend. If you think myth & legend regarding the .45Colt or .44 Dragoon and horses, or anecdotal crap regarding trapped hogs and .22's is evidence to support your stunt, then have at it. All of which is also fine but if you're looking for support for said "stunt", you're going to be hard pressed to find it. Sorry but our wild game, as well as the community here, deserve better. Go forth with the stunt, I look forward to the report. I hope you don't wound an unsuspecting critter or break the law in the process of satisfying your curiosity.

While I agree with much of what you have said it also seems that you “don’t want the truth but have already made up your mind” regarding what isn’t just “myth and legend” regarding the effectiveness of the .45 Colt and .44 Dragoon. There is far too much that says it most certainly is quite effective and with many people these days doing just that both with percussion revolvers and with .45 Colt loads that aren’t of the “Ruger only” persuasion. Far too many in fact. Speak to bandleaders. They’ve been doing it for quite some time and not just with some one off lucky happenstance. And there are plenty of people who hunt with a ball that can also attest to the effectiveness of the lowly sphere. Go to a traditional forum and ask those who have been doing it for decades and see what they say about the results in comparison to modern projectiles. I have because I didn’t believe, “knowing” what I know of modern stuff, that a sphere with such a low sectional density and poor BC could be very effective, especially at the ranges people are doing so each year. It’s not a one off lucky happenstance.

 

[CraigC]

I have done enough with standard loads in the .45Colt to know full well what it's capable of. That is not the topic of this discussion. Basing any decision to use one on the tenth-hand anecdotal crap about the .45 and horses is absurd. As I have said before, a real bullet changes everything. However, a conical out of a .36 is still less than marginal.

I have also done enough with round balls out of rifles to know what they are capable of. Big bore rifles at rifle velocity changes everything. That is not the topic of this discussion.

The topic of this discussion is not .45's or round balls out of rifles. I clocked my .54 GPR at 1850fps. A .535" ball at 1850fps is a LONG way from an 80gr .375" at 1000fps.

There is no magic here, all the same rules apply. To gain effectiveness, the "lowly sphere" has to go up in diameter. Gaining velocity doesn't hurt neither if it doesn't have too much a detrimental effect on penetration. You need diameter and mass to be effective. The .36 revolver has neither.

 

[maint1517]

And still irrelevant.

Actually it was relevant to the discussion that was going on at the time.

 

[rodwha]

I have done enough with standard loads in the .45Colt to know full well what it's capable of. That is not the topic of this discussion. Basing any decision to use one on the tenth-hand anecdotal crap about the .45 and horses is absurd. As I have said before, a real bullet changes everything. However, a conical out of a .36 is still less than marginal.

I have also done enough with round balls out of rifles to know what they are capable of. Big bore rifles at rifle velocity changes everything. That is not the topic of this discussion.

The topic of this discussion is not .45's or round balls out of rifles. I clocked my .54 GPR at 1850fps. A .535" ball at 1850fps is a LONG way from an 80gr .375" at 1000fps.

There is no magic here, all the same rules apply. To gain effectiveness, the "lowly sphere" has to go up in diameter. Gaining velocity doesn't hurt neither if it doesn't have too much a detrimental effect on penetration. You need diameter and mass to be effective. The .36 revolver has neither.

Ahhh, but I’m not basing effectiveness on “tenth-hand anecdotal evidence,” but on modern knowledge and experience using roughly similar load development, which tells me that they weren’t BSing us with what we hear these days. Adds credence to their claims.

And those balls are traveling about as fast as the rifle loads at typical hunting distances, which, again adds a bit of credence. However I was vague in my ball speak at this time as I meant the .44 cal handguns shooting a .45 cal ball.

Like you said that .375” ball from a pistol is marginal at best. Can it work? I with great shot placement and the opportunistic shot maybe so. Not my choice though, and certainly not for boys. Not even with a bullet would that be my choice.

 

[maint1517]

If that's the kind of discussion you want to have, I'll leave you to it..

Actually, if I remember correctly you've already made a statement similar to this earlier in this thread. It appears you just come to goad other members into an argument on this thread.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

I have done enough ...

I have also done enough ...

There is no magic here, . You need diameter and mass to be effective. The .36 revolver has neither.

Gee, ya don't say.


Bwana Craig seems to assume that he is the only one here who knows these things. Truisms are OK, stating the obvious is all right too, sometimes, but pontificating from On High in ’put-down’ mode, not so much.

As to relevancy: I know about relevancy. By a tight definition we would only mention hogs, bucks, and a Navy but threads are fluid and organic and I’ve read nothing here that was necessarily irrelevant to the topic.

I also resist being told what I can and can’t say or to hear anyone told that. It speaks volumes about one’s interlocutor.

And so ...
A .380 bounces around worse than anything I ever saw, especially in humans. Those little suckers will shoot a person six or seven times with just one round and no, I do not recommend it for hog hunting.

 

[Robert]

Good grief, how was this train wreck allowed to reach 8 pages. Some of y'all really need to get away from the keyboard and go outside more.