1851 Navy & beginner

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

rodwha,
I may not be following you either. You said "A grain is a weight that should transcend metric/"standard""
I took your usage of "Standard" to indicate English Measurement (aka, Imperial Measure, British Standard, Standard Measure, English Units, US Standard Measure) in other words, known to most of us as not Metric.
The British established that system of measure and it has substantially remained the same and is still widely utilized in the US today.
Grains are not part of the Metric system of measure, they are part of what is commonly know as the Standard or British or US system
My other point is that it shouldn't make much difference what system you are familiar with in daily life, as most folks here don't likely have any other unit of weight they use daily in the same ballpark as a few Grains. Therefore, conversion to the Metric system is not likely to mean any more than Grains to the average Metric Joe. (I now think this may be the same point you were trying to make)

 

[1861]

I just wanted to be able to convert everything - to a volume measured in litres. Because that I can always envision in an instant. I'll do it the other way around: when the flask arrives, I'll measure its volume in litres and then I'll know.

 

[rodwha]

rodwha,
I may not be following you either. You said "A grain is a weight that should transcend metric/"standard""
I took your usage of "Standard" to indicate English Measurement (aka, Imperial Measure, British Standard, Standard Measure, English Units, US Standard Measure) in other words, known to most of us as not Metric.
The British established that system of measure and it has substantially remained the same and is still widely utilized in the US today.
Grains are not part of the Metric system of measure, they are part of what is commonly know as the Standard or British or US system
My other point is that it shouldn't make much difference what system you are familiar with in daily life, as most folks here don't likely have any other unit of weight they use daily in the same ballpark as a few Grains. Therefore, conversion to the Metric system is not likely to mean any more than Grains to the average Metric Joe. (I now think this may be the same point you were trying to make)

I did initially mean a grain was a grain was a grain despite where you live. It's not metric or what we know as "standard."

However after this was brought up I was at a loss for why the grain measurement was to be what it is. It doesn't really measure up by the metric system which is what was common then and now. It seems odd now that it works out to an even number to a pound, something unheard of then (pounds).

 

[1861]

So... most of the stuff I already ordered or will order it soon. Thanks to help from you guys

There's one thing left which wasn't mentioned much: WADS.

As I understood it:
I will need to put that BETWEEN a powder and a ball IF I'll use smaller amount of powder. The role of wad is solely to fill the empty space in a chamber (if there will be too much empty space), so that everything sits together tightly. If I pour more powder, I might not need a wad at all, because a ball will sit tightly directly on a powder. Did I got that right?

I've read that wads right out of the box can be dry or oiled. I also read that dry wads could or should be oiled before going into chamber. What's that all about, the oil? Should wads be oiled, or not, or that depends - and if it depends - it depends on WHAT? I've also read that if I don't use wad, that I should put a small drop of oil on a ball. Is that correct? If yes - why? If yes - can I use just any oil?

I don't get something: If ball or wad is oiled - won't that oil get a powder wet?

Those wads are here, right? - http://www.westernguns.fr/patchs-calepins-bourres-29
Would you be so kind to go through those two pages and tell me what to buy for .36?
Is this what I'll need? - http://www.westernguns.fr/chargemen.../1498-bourres-en-feutre-cal36-lubrifiees.html
That seems awfully expensive to me - 11 Euros for 100 pieces of... what? What material is that anyway? Silk and gold when it's that expensive? Maybe I can find it on ebay cheaper...?

THANKS

 

[1861]

Is this good for extracting the ball which is stuck? - http://www.westernguns.fr/accessoir...94-extracteur-de-balle-femelle-5ma-cal36.html

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

The wad is mostly to hold the lube, and some folks additionally rely on the wad to help ensure a seal to prevent chain fires.
For filler, cheap plain old corn meal or cream of wheat is pretty popular between the powder and the ball.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Is this good for extracting the ball which is stuck? - http://www.westernguns.fr/accessoir...94-extracteur-de-balle-femelle-5ma-cal36.html

You wont have a use for that in a C&B revolver.
If the ball is stuck in the barrel remove the barrel or cylinder and push out with a dowel or rod
If the ball is stuck in the cylinder, remove the nipple and do the same as above.

 

[1861]

The wad is mostly to hold the lube, and some folks additionally rely on the wad to help ensure a seal to prevent chain fires.

Okay... to hold the lube... WHAT lube?
I thought that chain fires happen on the back side of cylinder - caps catching fire from the cap that has just being struck by a hammer? If that is so, then how is that related to a wad inside a chamber?
Thanks

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

... It seems odd now that it works out to an even number to a pound, something unheard of then (pounds).

I'm compelled to respond in order to keep this run away train of a thread rolling...

Unfortunately, you seem to be misinformed as the pound predates the metric system by centuries.
Grains are based on the same system as the pound (regardless of what you call said system)

 

[Tommygunn]

Okay... to hold the lube... WHAT lube?
I thought that chain fires happen on the back side of cylinder - caps catching fire from the cap that has just being struck by a hammer? If that is so, then how is that related to a wad inside a chamber?
Thanks

Chain fires were said to happen when a spark came through the front and bypassed a incorrect size bullet, or a defect in the bullet. This may be true, but others claim it happens from the rear due to oversize percussion caps that get squeezed to hold and leave an opening.
It may be both, the only question being how common each problem is. The fact that the nipples are recessed into the heel of the cylinder would seem to indicate original designers felt that point was the most dangerous.....or maybe just that they couldn't think of a design to prevent sparks coming in from the front since the cylinder had to rotate.

The greased wad under the ball helps form a good barrier if there is some passageway a spark can use to get behind the bullet.
Wads I use come pregreased. I imagine bore butter might work as well, if you make your own, but others here who go that rout may have better ideas.

 

[1861]

Thanks Tommygunn, I don't think I understood 100%, but it's a middle of a night here now and I'm off to bed; hopefully tomorrow I'll understand it fully.

 

[rodwha]

The lube is to keep the fouling soft. Lube over the ball typically ends up all over the revolver. Wads are much cleaner.

Wads are made of non synthetic felt. I punch my own and create my own lube (Gatofeo's #1). Ballistol cut with a little bit of water would work as well as I know some use it for patches in muzzleloaders.

Some people use some form of cereal grains, as suggested, as filler for petite loads. Some use wads for this as it's easier and there's no need for a second flask or dealing with that in the field, especially if it's breezy.

 

[drobs]

You can shoot ball over powder - that was Colt's original formula. The wad aids in 2 things. Prevents chain fire, keeps fouling loose allowing you to fire more rounds before cleaning.
Do some searching here on how to make your own wads and lube.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/9251898/&q=making+felt+wads&o=relevance&c[node]=12

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/9252034/&q=making+lube&o=relevance&c[node]=12

I use wonder wads bought in bulk from DD4lifeusmc. I don't believe he accepts paypal.
In my 1860 Army, I'll load 30grs of FFFg blackpowder, a wonder wad, and a .454 ball. The wad is on top of the powder.

I put a dollop of T/C Bore Butter on my finger and slather that on the Arbor or Cylinder Pin. I've been experimenting with putting a dollop on top of the wad under the round ball.

Bore butter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thompson-Ce...597089&hash=item4d4001cbff:g:3QAAAOSwFNZWzI7n

Some folks swear by lard (Crisco) on top of the ball. Some folks here and on other boards will dribble a vegetable type oil (canola, corn, olive, etc) on top of their balls... loaded chambers.

Here's an ebay auction for wads and ball:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-375-Roun...415040?hash=item1ecd7b1740:g:jGQAAOSwvk9ZgT41

From your links - this would work:
http://www.westernguns.fr/chargemen.../1498-bourres-en-feutre-cal36-lubrifiees.html

Ideally you want to eventually make your own wads and your own lube / grease. To save money you're eventually going to need to learn how to cast your own ball. Lots of folks are making their own powder and caps.

It's 6AM here and I need to get ready for work but I think we need to go over gun safety with you. Maybe one of our other members could go through those rules.

 

[1861]

Awesome writing as always, thanks! The first thing I read a month ago was all about safety, so no need to go there now (unless some new question pops up in my mind, but I think I know all basic rules about safety).

One question though - I wear glasses (I'm short-sighted) - so I can't really wear a protective glasses over them. Is that ok? If some tiny piece of lead somehow hits the glass of my glasses can it damage it?

I don't want to go that far as to cast my own balls and making powder and caps. But I'll try to learn to do my own wads. For the first time I'll just buy them online.

Until I get lead balls from France, I could just shoot some caps, I should have caps and powder sooner.
After firing with caps only, I still need to clean (the nipples) with some brush, right?
What would happen if I load powder and press it inside chamber, putting some wad or something like wad over it, but WITHOUT BALL, and fire it like that?

 

[drobs]

Awesome writing as always, thanks! The first thing I read a month ago was all about safety, so no need to go there now (unless some new question pops up in my mind, but I think I know all basic rules about safety).

One question though - I wear glasses (I'm short-sighted) - so I can't really wear a protective glasses over them. Is that ok? If some tiny piece of lead somehow hits the glass of my glasses can it damage it?

I don't want to go that far as to cast my own balls and making powder and caps. But I'll try to learn to do my own wads. For the first time I'll just buy them online.

Until I got lead balls from France, I could just shoot some caps, I should have caps and powder sooner.
After firing with caps only, I still need to clean (the nipples) with some brush, right?
What would happen if I load powder and press it inside chamber, putting some wad or something like wad over it, but WITHOUT BALL, and fire it like that?

I don't think modern American made caps are corrosive. Not sure about those European caps.
If it will be weeks before your ball arrive. You could fire some caps then simply take they cylinder out, hose it under the faucet of your kitchen sink. Dry it off as best as you can and then hose it down with WD40. When you get ready to load with ball and powder - snap some caps to clear any left over WD40.

You can shoot just powder and wads but you will need to clean the gun afterwards - or within a couple days. Note a blank firing gun will seriously hurt & possible kill someone at close / contact range - so be careful what you are pointing at.

Regarding your glasses - full frame glasses will probably OK. Most prescription glasses these days have a safety element to them. If they are reading glasses 1/2 frame - might want to double up. Safety glasses can be had in prescription form. Your focus when shooting a pistol should be on your front sight (up close). The target and your rear sight (hammer sight on the Colt) should be blurry.

In general Pietta C&B Revolvers shoot high. Using Kentucky Elevation (normally called Kentucky Windage) - I was able to shoot this group by using a six o'clock - aiming at either the 5 ring or 7 ring (I forget which) at 21ft.


By the way, I worked with a guy in Iraq who is from Croatia. I need to get over there sometime and visit that area - Bosnia Croatia etc. I hear you have some good homemade booze.

 

[drobs]

A couple single action / revolver safety tips.

1. Keep you hands, fingers, forearms, face, and body away from the front of the cylinder when firing. Violent gases escape between the front of the chamber the rear of the barrel (cylinder gap) when the gun is fired. Those gases will cut human flesh.

2. Practice lowering the hammer. You don't want that hammer to get away from you and cause an accidental or negligent discharge.
I attended a hunter safety course last vacation. I grew up in and hunted in Illinois and didn't need a Hunter Safety certificate as I was born before Illinois' cut off year. After working in Iraq I bought a house with some land in Missouri. Missouri requires hunters to take Hunter Safety if they were born after 1960 something and plan to hunt on public land. Anyways part of the course was showing that you could safely load and unload certain firearms. One of which was lowering the hammer on a lever action rifle. I was surprised by the number of shooters new and old that didn't know how to lower a hammer on a lever action. They gently held the hammer, pulled the trigger, and the hammer snapped forward. Had it been a loaded gun it would have fired. Single action revolvers (Black Powder or smokeless) require you to be able to safely lower the hammer on a loaded chamber.

3. On that note be certain of your target and backstop. Don't shoot something solid (rock, gravel, concrete walls, etc) where there is a chance of a ricochet.
Don't be like this guy.

http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/slingshot-head-looks-very-real-it-0

 

[1861]

I don't think modern American made caps are corrosive.
You could fire some caps then simply take they cylinder out, hose it under the faucet of your kitchen sink. Dry it off as best as you can and then hose it down with WD40

Note a blank firing gun will seriously hurt & possible kill someone at close / contact range - so be careful what you are pointing at.

Regarding your glasses - full frame glasses will probably OK.

Your focus when shooting a pistol should be on your front sight

I hear you have some good homemade booze.

I have great news regarding caps - the best-equipped French shop WILL have Remington No.10 in a week! They confirmed me that.
If modern American made caps are NOT corrosive - then why did you write that I have to do all that, even take the cylinder out and wash it - after firing just caps alone??

I already read here somewhere that I could seriously hurt someone even without ball, with powder only. So I will be careful to point my revolver ONLY towards those I want to hurt.

My glasses are full frame, but not very large frame.

I know about the focus, thanks. Even without reading about it earlier this summer, focus on the front sight seems only natural to me - when my revolver came, my focus was instinctively on front sight right away.

Our homemade booze is liked very much by everyone, but I don't drink alcohol, so I wouldn't know myself. If you happen to be in this part of the Globe one day, come to visit... many American tourists are here every summer.

That's a very nice photo you uploaded!

 

[1861]

Practice lowering the hammer.

Thanks! Already practised that these last two weeks - seemed to me like a VERY important thing

 

[drobs]

I have great news regarding caps - the best-equipped French shop WILL have Remington No.10 in a week! They confirmed me that.
If modern American made caps are NOT corrosive - then why did you write that I have to do all that, even take the cylinder out and wash it - after firing just caps alone??

I already read here somewhere that I could seriously hurt someone even without ball, with powder only. So I will be careful to point my revolver ONLY towards those I want to hurt.

My glasses are full frame, but not very large frame.

I know about the focus, thanks. Even without reading about it earlier this summer, focus on the front sight seems only natural to me - when my revolver came, my focus was instinctively on front sight right away.

Our homemade booze is liked very much by everyone, but I don't drink alcohol, so I wouldn't know myself. If you happen to be in this part of the Globe one day, come to visit... many American tourists are here every summer.

That's a very nice photo you uploaded!

Washing the cylinder with water was for the European caps.

 

[rodwha]

I've never just popped caps but I do notice a much different and stubborn residue around the nipples after use. I always attributed this to the Rem #10's.

 

[Mizar]

European made caps use non-corrosive priming compound - despite the time difference we still managed to enter the 21st century.

P.S. Sort of - except some small Balkan countries which are of no significance to this study...

 

[1861]

Did any of you ever experienced / seen a chain fire?
If chain fire happens - either because of a loose cap or on the front a spark bypasses a defect ball - is it possible or not for a revolver to explode in hand (if a second ball hits a lower back side of a barrel), to lose half a fist or something?
I see here no such consequences:





You think this might be a good tool to make wads at home? - http://www.westernguns.fr/chargemen...s-bourres/1471-emporte-piece-a-arche-9mm.html
Thanks.

 

[rodwha]

I'm going to guess that the 9mm, which ought to be 0.355", is too small as you want the wad to fill the chamber/bore with a snug fit. It's generally recommended to have your wad punch slightly oversized. Your bore is something like .375" so you'd want something like that. In metric that's 9.525 mm.

My father had a chain fire while standing next to me. He used felt wads. It just freaked him out a little. No big deal.

 

[BCRider]

On the topic of blank loads of powder with wadding and safety..... For 5 years now I've taken part in a demo shoot at a Father's Day celebration where the local cowboy action group puts on a show for the visitors to the local Kilby old time park. Needless to say we use blanks. But safety is still important. Part of the demo up front is a shot or two into the air so parents know now noisy it will be for the young ones. Another demo is to shoot a pop can with one of the blanks where the can is about 2 cm from the end of the barrel. Typically the pressure wave from just the powder by itself splits the can wide and just about turns it inside out. So yeah, even blank loads of minimal size need to be treated with great respect. That pressure spreads very quickly of course. But up close there is a lot of energy that deserves great respect.

Even though we've checked each others' kits for live ammo (lack of) and we KNOW that they are blanks we still point the guns off to the sides by some amount so we are not pointed directly at each other. This is more of a "respect" thing given that the ammo is all checked by ourselves and the rest of the crew. But it's a good habit to have. ALWAYS treat anything that goes BANG as if it's a proper gun that could fire a live projectile. And never assume that a gun is empty if you have not checked it yourself.

One fellow locally will re-check his gun if he turns away to talk and then turns back again. It's not that we need to fear the guns but it does not hurt to check and re-check if circumstances warrant it.

 

[shunka]

>>One question though - I wear glasses (I'm short-sighted) - so I can't really wear a protective glasses over them.
>>Is that ok? If some tiny piece of lead somehow hits the glass of my glasses can it damage it?

you can get some that go over prescription glasses like this
http://d27ah0i12nj2vl.cloudfront.ne...c09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/4/4/446AVLG1.jpg

or this
http://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/eae....jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF

or even this
https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.teachersource.com/images/products/pop/safe157.jpg

they protect your glasses *and* your eyes, especially along the sides and edges where "stuff" can get past regular glasses.
yhs
shunka