1851 Navy & beginner

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just wanted to make a quick note that LUBE should be used under or over the ball or in the wad itself. Not Oil. Lube in this case is anything from Crisco to bore butter to other specail blends of usually Beeswax/Tallow/Crisco, etc. If you put it between ball and powder it needs to not be liquid or it will contaminate all your powder and you'll get a phizzer or nothing at all and have to pull the ball. Main consensus is that it needs to be a non-petroleum product (it can create really bad fouling).

Unless you have access to good hard real wool felt for cheap (old hats etc), you can also make whats called a lube biscuit. I use the simple 50/50 Beeswax Crisco mix. melt in a pan and pour into a flat bottom something such that you get about 1/4" thick layer, let it cool, pop it out, use some talk powder or corn flour, etc on the top to keep it all from sticking together and punch them out. Put in a bag with some loose talkpowder/corn flour and shake to lightly coat them and keep them from sticking together. Use just like a wad.(but a bit messier) I have not noticed any difference using lubed wads, vs lube biscuits, vs lube over ball in terms of keeping the gun running smoothy or in terms of accuracy, but using one of these methods definately is better than no lube! No lube you will find the gun start to bind up after only a few shots and your accuracy will quickly suffer as hard fouling builds up in the bore. And cleanup is much easier with lube as the fouling that remains is soft and oily.

Wads are probably the easiest and least messy and many people think they clean the best, but are also generally the most expensive.
 
they protect your glasses *and* your eyes, especially along the sides and edges where "stuff" can get past regular glasses.
Ok shunka. ("Shunka" means "ham" in my language. :) ) Thanks, I might just do what you recommend and get one of those protective glasses. But - how anyone survived the American Civil War / War Between the States with both eyes unharmed, if percussion revolvers are such danger for shooters' eyes?
 
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no worries, most everything I have learned has been learned through this forum, and then tested out with the iron in the hand and the smoke in the air.
 
IMO, most of the info on the other links you posted is just a gloss-over on the 1851 Navy with very few specifics. If you want specifics, save your money, don't buy those on the links you posted, and get serious.

Please refer to Nathan L. Swayze's treatise.

If you want a very good read (with many photos) of original Colt 1851 Navy pistols (and variants), spend the money, sir. You will be amazed at the differences in various production pistols whether in the Hartford, London, or other facilities.

This is the real deal from 1967. I have an original and it is not cheap because it is out of print and not many "affordable" copies left. I paid $75 for mine over 4 years ago, so you may well see how the "value" has increased. I consider it my 1851 Navy "bible" and have found none better.

To compare:

https://www.amazon.com/51-Colt-Navies-Nathan-Swayze/dp/B0006BQUF2

https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/51-Colt-Navies-First-Edition-Swayze/819532135/bd

https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/'51-colt-navies/

https://www.amazon.com/51-Colt-Navies-Nathan-Swayze/dp/0882270303

I have supplied this link as a very small taste of it: Look for the .pdf file on the 9th link.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0i22i30l5.0.0.0.14227...........0.3BNFm64f5ek

Whichever source you choose, it will be a good investment if you want to know about the Colt 1851 Navy .36.

Good luck, sir!

Jim
 
save your money, don't buy those on the links you posted
Those 2 books I mentioned ARRIVED today. Money already spent. UK Amazon, very cheap.
No way I would / could pay those prices in your links.
Problem #1: those books are insanely expensive - and some (many?) of them are not even new.
Problem #2: most of the USA sellers DON'T want to ship overseas, and those who do usually charge insanely much for shipping (books are heavy and I'm on the other side of the globe and they use the most expensive shipping methods and they maybe even overcharging it).
Problem #3: I earn probably several times less than an average American.
Problem #4: I would most likely have additional costs in a form of taxes to my Government, because the books would come from outside of the European Union, and that would be additional 25% of the total I would pay for book+shipping, plus some administration fees.
So try to imagine just how much I would have to pay for some of those great books. I could probably buy 2 new revolvers from France for 1 such book from the USA.
 
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1861;

9 pages and counting...Wow!! By this time you must be suffering from information overload. Shooting this revolver is really quite simple. Put powder in the chamber, leave enough room to seat the ball completely. Put a cap on the nipple and shoot the darn thing. If it starts to bind up, then use more lube, or take it home and clean it.

Don't put so much pressure on yourself to do it "perfectly" the very first time. There is no "perfect". You can already see that there are a lot of different ways to load and shoot and clean, and they all work. Allow yourself to experiment to find the procedures that are easiest for you, and that give you good results.

Welcome to the brotherhood of soot lords. I am eager to hear about your first trip to the range! :)
 
Did any of you ever experienced / seen a chain fire?
If chain fire happens - either because of a loose cap or on the front a spark bypasses a defect ball - is it possible or not for a revolver to explode in hand (if a second ball hits a lower back side of a barrel), to lose half a fist or something?
I see here no such consequences:





You think this might be a good tool to make wads at home? - http://www.westernguns.fr/chargemen...s-bourres/1471-emporte-piece-a-arche-9mm.html
Thanks.


Not sure on that tool. Regarding chain fires - as long as you keep your fingers and body parts away from the front of the cylinder - you should be fine. They don't damage the gun. I've never experience one but have been using oversized ball that cuts a ring from the start.

Chain Fires are a frequent topic on most BP forums. I think they are rare and more related to shooters using the wrong undersized ball and no patch or wad.

More reading for you:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/9349617/&q=chainfire&o=relevance&c[node]=12
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/9349607/&q=chain+fire&o=relevance&c[node]=12
 
I'm going to guess that the 9mm, which ought to be 0.355", is too small as you want the wad to fill the chamber/bore with a snug fit. It's generally recommended to have your wad punch slightly oversized. Your bore is something like .375" so you'd want something like that. In metric that's 9.525 mm.

My father had a chain fire while standing next to me. He used felt wads. It just freaked him out a little. No big deal.

Now that I think about it.
Might be able sand or file that the inside diameter of that tool to a larger .375 diameter.
 
I've read all that a few days ago, those are very old posts... and I realised that chain fire is not fatal - and that is very good to know, cause I was worried about it before, but now I'm not any more. Of course I'll always buy only oversized balls. There'll be some more weeks until I have it all, balls, caps, powder, wads, flask, powder measure... everything's been ordered, now I have to wait for all of it to come, from the USA, Australia, France...
 
...Please refer to Nathan L. Swayze's treatise.

If you want a very good read (with many photos) of original Colt 1851 Navy pistols (and variants), spend the money, sir. You will be amazed at the differences in various production pistols whether in the Hartford, London, or other facilities.

This is the real deal from 1967. I have an original and it is not cheap because it is out of print and not many "affordable" copies left. I paid $75 for mine over 4 years ago, so you may well see how the "value" has increased. I consider it my 1851 Navy "bible" and have found none better....

For anyone interested in getting a taste of Swayze's work (without spending a dime) you can check out these two articles Swayze authored for The American Society of Arms Collectors in 1971 & 1975 respectively. http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/

THE MODEL 1851 COLT NAVY
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_Swayze.pdf

THE LONDON-MADE '51 COLT NAVY WITH A COMPARISON TO ITS HARTFORD-MADE COUNTERPART
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B031_Swayze.pdf
 
For comparison...
Last week I ordered some accessories from the American shop (flask, stand), and some accessories from the French shop (tools, balls, wads).
American shop: 10 minutes after I payed they confirmed my order, 1 hour after I payed they shipped it, 7 days after I payed I received it from the USA.
French shop: 7 days after I payed they confirmed my order.
 
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rodwha, I ordered completely different items from the USA and from the France, so we can't compare. But the shipping costs with both orders are very fair, I was even surprised that the shipping wasn't more expensive.
I'm also waiting for the small brass powder measure from Australia, and for the powder and caps to come in shop here locally.
 
11 days after I payed for some accessories (tools, balls, wads) from France, that French shop is informing me that my parcel is ready to be shipped. :scrutiny: The American shop shipped me other accessories about 1 hour after I payed.
 
I keep checking in to see if you've made it out to do some shooting yet. I'm getting to where I'm almost as anxious, or perhaps MORE anxious as YOU are! ! ! ! :D I'm keen to read about how you found the whole BP shooting experience to be.

One big safety thing for me is that when I'm capping I always keep all of my hand and fingers holding the gun behind the front face of the cylinder. Caps take a heck of a sharp and fast hit to make them ignite... .usually.... But me and my fingers don't want to find out that I'm wrong the hard way. So while simply charging with powder and ball and any wads or filler you can be somewhat cavalier on the issue of being around the openings. But once the caps start going onto the nipples keep everything tender behind that front face.

I'm going to guess that most or all of the others around here do the same.
 
Have you shot it yet?

Also, during the ACW, they were doing their best to try to kill one another. Lot's of shot, smoke, shrapnel, and flying debris. Protecting their eyes and ears was not even on the radar. However, when folks aren't shooting at you, why take chances that a stray fragment of cap or a particle of powder will destroy your vision? At the same time, you don't want to wear hearing aids any sooner than necessary.
 
Did any of you ever experienced / seen a chain fire?
If chain fire happens - either because of a loose cap or on the front a spark bypasses a defect ball - is it possible or not for a revolver to explode in hand (if a second ball hits a lower back side of a barrel), to lose half a fist or something?
I see here no such consequences:
Thanks.


On the top video go to Youtube and read the comments. Commenters said,

"I used to shoot black powder revolvers in competition, trying to recall how many rounds I have fired, well into the hundreds in matches, and I have owned many blackpowder revolvers. Never had this issue, one, I used the correct sized balls for the gun, when the manufacturer tells you what size, that's the one to get. I have heard of people shooting .440 diameter roundballs out of .44 revolvers before which are .451 or .454 which can cause a chain fire because there is a gap where the ball is not tightly sealed. Second, the lubricated wads like those sold by Wonderwad between the ball and the powder help a great deal. If you are not sure what size ball your gun takes, slug the barrel which will tell you exactly what size ball you need."

"Either do the grease over the balls, OR use the lubed felt wads between powder and ball, which will be a lot cleaner! I have never had a chainfire in 39 years of shooting cap&ball. Got my first one in 1976, from a K-mart of all places! A good tight fitting .454 ball shouldn't allow chainfiring either. DO NOT use .445s! They are for .45 cal singleshot muzzle loaders."

"I've never had a chain fire in 20 years...and I don't use wads or lube. I use .454 balls and well fitting #11 CCI magnum or Winchester #11 magnum caps on SlixShot nipples nowadays."


I've never had one and have been shooting these revolvers since 1976. Now stop worrying about chainfires and go shoot this thing.
 
On the top video go to Youtube and read the comments. Commenters said,

"I used to shoot black powder revolvers in competition, trying to recall how many rounds I have fired, well into the hundreds in matches, and I have owned many blackpowder revolvers. Never had this issue, one, I used the correct sized balls for the gun, when the manufacturer tells you what size, that's the one to get. I have heard of people shooting .440 diameter roundballs out of .44 revolvers before which are .451 or .454 which can cause a chain fire because there is a gap where the ball is not tightly sealed. Second, the lubricated wads like those sold by Wonderwad between the ball and the powder help a great deal. If you are not sure what size ball your gun takes, slug the barrel which will tell you exactly what size ball you need."

"Either do the grease over the balls, OR use the lubed felt wads between powder and ball, which will be a lot cleaner! I have never had a chainfire in 39 years of shooting cap&ball. Got my first one in 1976, from a K-mart of all places! A good tight fitting .454 ball shouldn't allow chainfiring either. DO NOT use .445s! They are for .45 cal singleshot muzzle loaders."

"I've never had a chain fire in 20 years...and I don't use wads or lube. I use .454 balls and well fitting #11 CCI magnum or Winchester #11 magnum caps on SlixShot nipples nowadays."


I've never had one and have been shooting these revolvers since 1976. Now stop worrying about chainfires and go shoot this thing.

No wads or lube? Round Balls or Conicals ? Id' love to do away with wads and lube, but a typical range session is a minimum of 48 rounds from any give revolver and up to 96 on nice summer days. I know the Remmies would bind up, how about the Colts.
I agree on the chain fires, a proper fitting bullet and caps all but eliminates that.
 
No wads or lube? Round Balls or Conicals ? Id' love to do away with wads and lube, but a typical range session is a minimum of 48 rounds from any give revolver and up to 96 on nice summer days. I know the Remmies would bind up, how about the Colts.
I agree on the chain fires, a proper fitting bullet and caps all but eliminates that.

I had stopped using wads with a ball and didn't seem to see accuracy suffer.

If you want to keep a Remington operating you need to oil the base pin. I use Ballistol and it works wonders. I reapply it about every 3rd or 4th cylinder but it's not because I notice it dragging. Maybe I should see how long it will shoot instead of potentially wasting oil.
 
Those were various comments from people on Youtube. I have to use a lube on my Uberti or the barrel gets too fouled up and accuracy suffers.
 
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