1851 Navy Conversion?

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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Wel howdy yall,

I'm in the market for an 1851 Colt Navy revolver with a Richard Mason conversion to fire .38 special cartridges. I love the look of the classic gun but would prefer a smokeless cartridge-fed option as the range I go to does not allow black powder. I also like that .38 special is cheaper to buy than some other options like .45 Colt.

I know Uberti makes one: http://www.uberti.com/army-conversion-navy-conversion-and-open-top-revolvers and that Cimmaron also offers this, apparently it's also made by Uberti.

What I'm wanting to know is, how would this gun hold up and is it any good? I would be shooting standard factory .38 special target loads, obviously nothing +P or loaded hot. Just normal, Wal-Mart run of the mill .38 target loads.

Can I expect this gun to perform well? How is fit and finish, accuracy? Is the thing going to fall apart after a few range trips? I plan to shoot this gun fairly often, and I also am planning to get a holster and gun belt for it cutom made, that is only if the gun would hold up. The gun would also be used for outdoor plinking and woods walks, maybe some light hiking and even as a backup handgun while hunting small game and possibly deer.

Basically, is the Uberti/Cimmaron 1851 Navy Conversion a quality piece worth buying if I'm in the market for this type of gun? I just don't want to be dissapointed.

Thank you so much! :D
 
I've got the Army version (45 Colt) by Uberti and it's a beautiful revolver. It's as good as any if their SAA clones, and will last for generations. Finish is excellent. Buy with confidence.


Willie

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I have four of them, two matched pairs I use for Cowboy Action Shooting. Two are Ubertis and two are Armi San Marcos. I handload because for Cowboy Action you want as little recoil as possible for faster shooting. I have fired some factory Winchester white box ammo through them and that is much hotter than what I handload. They are well-made, strong guns. With the low-powered loads I shoot they probably won't ever wear out. Even with factory ammo they should last for thousands of rounds.
 
Cooldill said:
... I would be shooting standard factory .38 special target loads, obviously nothing +P or loaded hot. Just normal, Wal-Mart run of the mill .38 target loads.

Can I expect this gun to perform well? ...
Click to expand...

I have no personal experience with those but.
When you say "Wal-Mart run of the mill .38 target loads." I think Winchester Full Metal Jacket "White Box". I don't think the conversions are normally designed for FMJ rounds. I'd check on that if your goal is to shoot FMJ.
Also does Uberti use an actual 38 / .357 barrel with the conversions to fit the 38, or is it a "normal" larger 36 cal C&B barrel?
 
Factory made "conversions" are built with appropriately bored barrels to match the cartridge.

Aftermarket conversions are the ones that have the odd pairing of bore and bullet diameters.
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
I have no personal experience with those but.
When you say "Wal-Mart run of the mill .38 target loads." I think Winchester Full Metal Jacket "White Box". I don't think the conversions are normally designed for FMJ rounds. I'd check on that if your goal is to shoot FMJ.
Also does Uberti use an actual 38 / .357 barrel with the conversions to fit the 38, or is it a "normal" larger 36 cal C&B barrel?
Click to expand...

I agree that jacketed (semi or FMJ doesn't matter) ought not be run through these types of guns!

I have the 1851 Richards Mason by Uberti, marked for .38. I'd use cowboy loads in .38SP.
What I also do is run .38 Long Colt Black Powder rounds or .38 short colt. I haven't found BP short colt but it's a light enough round that it ought to be very easy on the gun.

These types of guns are used for entertainmanet purposes and are no longer the type of gun I would consider for serious self defense. While Uberti does make them very well I would refrain from using modern ammo in them. No jackedted, no PLUS P rounds, just cast lead in the calibers mentioned....the gun as marked is .38SP so use cowboy rounds in .38SP. as the most powerful.
 
Well... in that case I might not want this gun.

If I have to reload for it and shoot only powder puff lead cowboy loads, I might be in the marked for a different revolver.

Thanks everyone for the help though!
 
^^ You don't. Be reasonable about this. You're asking about a vintage design, but one that is made with modern materials, and is sold from the factory chambered in .38 Special (and also in .45 Colt in a slightly different model).


"I don't think the conversions are normally designed for FMJ rounds."

Here's where the advice is going wrong, as it's based on a false assumption.

These aren't *conversions*, meaning a revolver sold with a cap and ball cylinder that is then exchanged for a conversion cylinder. They are "historical representations of what was a factory conversion done in the 1800's" and are manufactured ab-initio for use with standard SAAMI specification centerfire ammunition.


(1): There's no reason to shoot expensive soft tip or hollow point defensive loads in these for plinking *although there's no limitation on doing so*, as they are built to withstand standard SAAMI spec ammunition loaded to normal pressures.

(2): There aren't any "full metal jacket" .38 loads commonly available but even if there were, if loaded to SAAMI spec they would be OK.

(3): You don't shoot +P loads in anything not marked for them. These aren't.

(4): There are plenty of lead bullet .38 loads available commercially that are neither "Cowboy" loads or +P defensive loads. These range from light semiwadcutters to all sorts of other choices. Any of them is a fine choice in one of these.

(5): The guys that shoot cowboy loads in these do so for competition reasons, not for strength reasons. Find a fun load and enjoy it. 10,000 times....


Willie

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Last edited:
Awesome Willie! I was a bit confused. I thought that I would have to shoot only cowboy action lead bullet loads in this gun. As I currently don't reload due to living arrangement problems, it gladens me to hear that I can use standard-pressure off the shelf .38 special ammo in the gun.

This made my day! So are one of these a good shooter? Since I'm not into CAS and would be using this as a fun/range/target gun with possible secondary use as a hunting sidearm, would I do alright with this choice?
 
^^ They are fun. They are also an accurate replica of a design that even when new was a mule, being a cross-breed between a percussion revolver and a designed to purpose centerfire revolver, and were obsolete in 1873 when the SAA appeared on the scene. They were a mule then, and they are a mule now. They work as well now as they did in 1872, which means they work just fine if properly used and not abused. They are not a substitute for a Model 10 Smith & Wesson for heavy duty use, but then again many were used to drive barbed-wire fence staples with their butts and to twist wire using their barrels as a lever. They are not made of sugar candy. Is that good enough? I guess it all depends on what you want. I prefer one to a SAA just to be different.


Willie

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Cooldill, the sights are very rudimentary on these. You don't aim them as much as point them. The Uberti's really have no rear sight, just a notch in the hammer you align with the front sight, which is similar to a shotgun bead sight. The Armi San Marcos have a notch on top of the conversion ring but it's not much better. I love mine but they have limitations. If you do get one be prepared to practice with it a lot and know that, like any gun with fixed sights, point of aim and point of impact don't always coincide. Some ammunition may shoot dead on and some won't. Part of the fun is working up a load your gun likes.
 
I know the sights aren't so hot on these, the black powder Colt revolvers I've shot have the same setup. It's not a major concern with me at all, I was more concerned with strength and longevity of the modern conversions.
 
Here's what I think you should do.

1: Buy one.

2: Shoot it and hate it.

3: Sell it to me at a steep discount, since I want a Navy one to go along with my Army one....


These aren't terribly expensive, and are worth playing with just for fun. (and I would rather like a Navy one, so.....)



Willie

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I was wondering about that .38 FMJ remark as well since I bought a box of UMC FMJ 38 for my Colt Official Police at one point, albeit years ago.
I was guessing maybe with the ammo supply being so volatile if it had been discontinued.
I still don't think I'd use it in a open top revolver design though ... just my humble opinion...
 
Willie Sutton, perhaps... that is not a good plan! :D


Why isn't it safe to shoot FMJ ammo in this open top design?
 
"Why isn't it safe to shoot FMJ ammo in this open top design?"


It's perfectly safe (and is absolutely no different than shooting any other jacketed bullet) but why would you want to? I can't imagine *anything* less worthwhile than a FMJ .38 special. The only users ever have been the US Military for issue aircrew revolvers in order to meet convention requirements regarding not using expanding bullets in an anitpersonnel role.

These revolvers will shoot any SAAMI spec ammo, but are most authentic with plain old lead.


"I have to disagree with the point of “There aren't any "full metal jacket" .38 loads commonly available” I’d put forth that it’s one of the most available types of 38 ammo since you can just walk into Walmart and pick up a box (When they have ammo on the shelf).

It may be available because it's absolutely the least desirable loading possible in that cartridge and it's all that's left in the supply chain. I've never seen any for sale in 40 years of shooting. Now truthfully I have never never looked at Walmart, but they must be dredging out every old barrel of bullets and loading them up for sale during this time of want.


Willie

.
 
The 130 grain FMJ (I think a lot are really plated rather than jacketed.) .38 Special, similar to the old GI load, seems to have become the standard Cheapmart econoball. It was getting well established even before Obama Panic I in '09.

It is light in recoil, as it should be, because velocity is low, and is "clean" with no leading and little powder fouling from its light charge of fast powder. That seems to matter more to Modern Shooters than having the bullet weight and load that most fixed sight guns are set up for.
 
Copper Plated cowboy loads by the sounds of it...

I'll stand by my "worthless" assesment. It's probably cheap to load, as those bullets likely are cleaner (read that less likely to produce industrial lead contamination) at the point of loading.


This is the kind of stuff I look for for plinking:

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst...8-special-148-gr-wadcutter-police-trade-50box


This is the sort of thing that these revolvers thrive on:

https://www.laxammo.com/ammunition/38-spl-ammo/magtech-.38-spl-158gr-lrn-50rds-38a/37-785



Willie

.
 
Well I'm not a reloader and I was just concerned that the cheapo brands of FMJ .38 loads would damage the revolver.

It's tough times in the ol' ammo world, and a gun that can't shoot the cheapy cheap ain't no use to me LOL! :D!
 
Since the only thing these are not designed to shoot routinely is +P, and since you pay a premium for that, the cheaper the better for both your wallet and revolver.

Truly, the best deals on ammo are mail order anyhow, and you can pick what you like.

Noting that plated copper ammo is the current Walmart stuff, I would have no problem shooting it in any of these if mail order stuff in 1000 packs isn't part of your plan.


Willie

.
 
No, I use ammoseek.com to find the best deals on ammo but sometimes Wal-Mart is just handy to grab a box on the way to the range etc.
 
The "Conversion" revolvers by Uberti are not soft, in the sense that the cap & ball revolvers are, they are made with the same steel used for their SAA and other cartridge guns. The only weak point would be the wedge. Even a Dragoon will destroy its wedge if loaded to the max for every shot with black powder.

I have been using two 44 caliber Uberti Opentops for well over 10 years as main match pistols, they show little or no wear or degradation from it. I shoot smokeless most, in 44 Russian brass, but the load is equivalent (as was the original) to 44 Special.
 
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