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1851 navy transfer bar?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by James Felix, May 24, 2020.

  1. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    So a while back, about 3 or 4 years back, I was doing some research on cap and ball, and gunsmiths.

    I remember I found a shop, they did a bunch of work on these things, I saw a thing talking about installing a transfer bar.
    Can you on one of these things? Like I edc this, and it sorta be cool to have a safety on a gun designs older then dirt.
     

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  2. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    A transfer bar isn't an external safety, it allows you to carry with the cylinder fully loaded, keeps the firing pin out of contact with the hammer unless the trigger is pulled fully, makes it drop safe, nothing more.
     
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  3. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    Sorta figured that, but my Q is, could you put one on a 1851 navy?
     
  4. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Probably could but the cost would be substantial and only gain you 1 more shot. If it's a factory option on any BP firearm, I haven't seen it.
    @45 Dragoon would know if it's possible or what the deal is.
     
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  5. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    Okay, thanks. I wish I booked marked the website i pulled up, I cant seem to find nothing on the subject.
     
  6. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    The gun would need a lot of work if it were possible and it's not a modification that's beneficial enough to warrant the cost to do it. Any modification like that would be a custom job , not something listed as a service. Just guessing here but I could see a good smith charging $1000 for that type of work. Not a lot of good revolver smiths anymore so they're always behind and buried in work and many wouldn't take a project like that unless it paid substantially. So it's a bit of a merry-go-round of what's it worth to you and how long are you willing to wait to have work like that done, assuming it possible and you find the right guy to do it.
    If it's a feature you value on a gun your best bet is to find a factory gun of that design (if it exists), that'll save time , money & trouble.
    Good luck
     
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  7. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    Just reading that left me feeling my dream of somthing ridiculous crushed. But I see what you mean, It would be a lot of work. sigh.

    I mean plenty of revolvers only shoot five. Oh well.
     
  8. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    My favorite revolver only carries 4. It's a 5 shot with no transfer bar.
     
  9. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    Oof, So what sorta of piece would that be? Love wheel guns.
     
  10. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    It's a freedom arms 83 in 454 casull , 10" barrel. It's a sweet shooting revolver.
    FA1.jpg
     
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  11. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    Ohh, that is sexy. I love long barrels, so this thing has so many check box's.
    What the farthest you shot her?

    *clicks on a youtube video about the gun.*
     
  12. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Ranges around here generally only go to 100 yards, I'm not a great long range shooter but I'd be confident hunting medium game with it out to 100 yards.
     
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  13. James Felix

    James Felix member

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  14. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    On the 1851 Navy, there are six safety pins on the rear of the cylinder between the nipples and a notch in the hammer face to accommodate them. This way you can carry the revolver with all six chambers loaded and not have the hammer resting on a nipple.

    Regards,

    Jim
     
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  15. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Thanks for the mention Obturation!!
    James, I think if you remove the frame material needed (in the hammer slot) for a transfer bar, you'd loose the threads for the arbor. If you find the info you're looking for please post it. Would definitely be interesting ( always fun to see "new stuff" or "how to's"). Personally, the only time I ever "carried" a cap gun (work truck), it was a Remington pattern and felt perfectly safe with the safety notch setup with a fully loaded cyl. That said, my open top Colt's pattern guns have Kirst gated conversions in them (set up as dedicated cartridge guns). The "safety" system is the reverse of the cap gun system, meaning the hammer rests on the firing pin which protrudes into a hole between the chambers. It's a good enough system for my comfort so the cyls are always fully loaded.

    Mike
     
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  16. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I think that it could be a lot easier and cheaper to simply install a hammer block safety mechanism and not a "transfer bar."
    I can think of 2 single action revolvers that have a safety.
    One is the Heritage Rough Rider .22.
    It's simply a rotating pin attached to a small lever that flips it.
    One side is ground down enough to allow the hammer to fall, the other side is round and fat enough to block the hammer from falling all of the way.

    The other safety was called a "Swiss Safe" hammer block that was invented for the Interarms Virginian Dragoon that were originally made by Hammerli before production was moved to the US by Stoeger who owned Interarms.
    That safety blocked the hammer by pushing the base pin or cylinder pin farther in towards the hammer, until it contacted the hammer in a location that was back far enough to be safe and off the firing pin.
    The cylinder pin had 2 notches or rings in it, one was for the safe position and the other was for the firing position.
    When the pin was in the "out" or firing position the hammer wasn't blocked and could fall.
    When the pin was pushed "in" to the safe position, it physically kept the hammer back far enough to not be able to contact the firing pin.
    The hammer would need to be placed on half-cock in order to move the pin in or out to put the gun on safe or to take if off of safe.

    I don't know if the Heritage Rough Rider type safety could be added to a C&B or not.
    It would require precise drilling of the holes for it in the right location, and would depend on whether there are any other parts in the way.

    The Heritage does use a specialized part that has a 90 degree lever, with a small cut out in the frame that allows it to be flipped.
    But I'm not sure whether that part of such a hammer block safety design is necessary or not.
    Perhaps the flip lever could be placed on the side of the frame instead of integral with it.
    Or a safety could be designed to be activated by a simple push button instead of a lever.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  17. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Exactly, and the same thing applies for the Remingtons with their safety notches. A transfer bar is not needed since these guns can be safely carried with all chambers loaded.
     
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  18. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    You'd have to work pretty hard to defeat the designed hammer-down/locked-on-safety-pin set up.
    Only a Democrat would demand greater Safe Space be imposed on a near two-century old design.
    (But then . . . they were routinely carried by the ultimate Deplorables)
     
  19. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    My experience with the pins on Colts is that over time they tend to break or simply fall out. I'm not sure I have any Colts that still have all of their pins.
     
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  20. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Curious, can you not lower the hammer between nipples and carry it full? I know that’s not always possible, but I thought it was pretty easy to do with most cap and ball revolvers. I don’t yet have a cap and ball gun so that may be a silly thought, but it’s a consideration for me as well. I plan to get a .36 CB gun this year, and if I do then it will serve as secondary to my .45 hawken during muzzleloader seasons for deer, so it’s a concern if I can’t load it full for an opportunistic shot at coyote or another critter. I need better understanding.
     
  21. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    If you look closely, you will see that is not a optio I would want to bother with, plus even with out them being worn, there sorta iffy.
     

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  22. James Felix

    James Felix member

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    This is some prime time study material right hear. Thanks.
     
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  23. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    One other that I’m aware of, is a very simple and odd setup on my armi jager (emf) buntline revolver. There is a rotating knurled disc on the hammer with one side ground flat. The disc in all directions except for the flat part facing forward with the hammer face is meant to hit the frame and block the hammer from striking the cartridge. It doesn’t work so well and it got peened down to nothing a long while back. It’s still on the gun, but it no longer serves a purpose. I have considered removing it, but I don’t want a random threaded hole on the hammer.
     
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  24. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The pins are typically peened down on original Colts. If you find one with intact pins, that raises the value substantially. The safety notches versus the pins is one of the advantages of the Remington design.
    I think for this system to work, there has to be some way to positively block the cylinder from turning. The Colt pins / Remington notches do that. Even better is the Howell design, used on their conversion cylinders, that has an extra set of bolt slots in the circumference of the cylinder. But that can only be used in a 5-shot cylinder, that has extra material in the web between the chambers.
     
  25. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Done in 1863 by Augusta Machine Works, a Confederate copy of Colt Navy and by Starr. Six-shooters both.

    If you follow the instructions for a Freedom Arms, you will be carrying a 4 shooter.
     
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