1858 project: removing the blue

[packarat]

I'm right in the middle of removing the blue from my Pietta 1858. I don't want to call the project antiqueing, because I was going for what a NIB would look like at that time in history. I would like the gun to "age" on it's own. Keeping it in a holster, regular wear and tear, etc.

I used vinegar to remove the blue, rinsed in hot water and dried with a hair dryer. The pan I used didn't quite fit the frame and I believe it may have soaked a bit longer than required. I now have a golden patina or rust on parts of the frame. I am in the process of using some Sweet's 7.62 to remove this patina or rust.

For those that have experience with this project I have some questions. Is this golden patina normal or did I rust the frame? Is there an easier way to remove the patina/rust other than Sweet's?

I will of course post some pics when I finish the project, too embarrassed and a little frustrated at the moment. Thanks in advance for any help...

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

boil it then dry with hair dryer and oil it. of course remove wood, cylinder, etc. muriatic acid will take off any remaining blueing. do the same after you treat it with.

 

[brentn]

I've found that when I remove the bluing, it rusts almost instantaneously. Would using laquer thinner or something like that to clean the parts after they are de-blued be the safest way to prevent rusting?

 

[Desert Scorpion]

I De-Blued two of my Cap&Balls when I got them. One an Uberti Walker and the other an Uberti New Army. I removed the bluing by buying a Bluing kit at a Sporting Good store. It was a bluing restoration kit, came with the new bluing but also a De-Bluing solvent which I used. The guns are now in total grey with no new rust protection. It has been 5 months now with no considerable rust at all.. They look very neat im glad I did it. Post picks tomorrow.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

Here you go First is a Uberti Colt Waker 1847, second is a Uberti Remington New Army with spare cylinder. 496-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Desert Scorpion]

Hmmm doesnt seem to have gone through. I give up:banghead:

 

[brentn]

Do us a favor and post just the address for the images, don't use the image button, just post up the address and someone here will link them for you

 

[Jamie C.]

muriatic acid will take off any remaining blueing.

Muriatic acid will turn carbon steel BLACK if you leave it too long.


J.C.

 

[dstorm1911]

If ya want an authentic for the period appearance then ya would not strip the whole gun instead you would polish the sharp edges at the muzzle, edge of Cyl. and raised areas with near perfect blueing still in all the lower sheltered areas....

Stripping all of the finish is for that "been used hard the last 140 years and cared for little" look, all of my originals I'v bought outa attics, or old barns etc... have almost 75 percent of the original finish in perfect condition.... unless a cowboy dropped his Remington in a saline tank and left it for a week then the only finish wear will be pretty much the same as ya would find on the average beat cops blued duty revolver

 

[Seancass]

allow me to help the desert scorpion. he just made a typographical error. these do look great, just seems to me like they will rust with out some protection.

 

[Malamute]

"..... I don't want to call the project antiqueing, because I was going for what a NIB would look like at that time in history. "



I thought all the original percussion revolvers were blued? At least all the ones I've seen have been. The Cody Museum has hundreds of them, and they all are blued.

 

[packarat]

dstorm1911 and malamute you bring up a good point. From what I remember seeing in pictures and museums is a mottled gray revolver. I thought that a "finish" in either blue or stainless were options and that a gun could be had without these finishes.

Is it possible that what I remember seeing were stainless models without their shine? Was the blue finish lighter 150 yeas ago that it did not make the gun appear black?

I like the look of what I'm calling raw steel. After a long night of scrubbing and some heavy oiling I'm rather pleased with the outcome. This is something of a beater for me that I just love to shoot. Not trying to keep it pristine just rust free and in good working order.

Regular camera took a dive since a trip to the beach. Best pic I can take using the cell phone.

 

[dstorm1911]

There were no stainless guns in the 19th Century at all, the man who invented stainless steel wasn't even born until 1871 and the first stainless steel wasn't used until 1908 so pretty unlikally.........

Antique guns are going to have less finish especially if they have been used for 140+ years however in the 19th Century they were still new so an AUTHENTIC look say for cowboy action etc... would be a worn blue apearance just like the finish on a Cops duty weapon after bein carried in a holster for a few years etc...


The younger generation just cracks me up LOL ya gotta realize most of the technology we have today wasn't even available in the middle of the 20th Century let alone the 19th century, Stainless guns didn't show up until around 1960 or so.... before that ya had 2 choices Nickle plated or Blued and in the day of C&B revolvers ya wouldn't have seen nickle plated so that left blued

What really gets me is when reenacters want an antiqued finish so they can look "authentic" well if the idea is to recreate a page out of history or to step back into time......... ya aren't going to be stepping back with a 140 year old antique your going to be stepping back with a gun thats only a couple years old at most and should still look pretty much new....

 

[brentn]

True, but those guys back then packed C&B revolvers every day for years. They probably would have significant wear regardless the fact that they were only a couple years old. All that holster wear, drawing the pistol and maintaining it would have made most of the blue wear off.

Look at us, we goto the range a couple times a week with these things, even if it was every day it would only be for an hour or so. Its not like we're wearing them from the point we get up to the point we go to bed.

 

[Jamie C.]

...your going to be stepping back with a gun thats only a couple years old at most and should still look pretty much new....

Except for the fact that the bluing we see now isn't the bluing that was used then.

And charcoal blue is much lighter, and nowhere near as durable as this modern blue/black stuff is.

I'd venture to say that a few seasons out herding cattle and repairing fences would leave a gun looking anything but "pretty much new", especially if the cowpoke had better things to worry about than what his gun looked like. ( And he most certainly would. Function, though, is another matter. )

Sure, those museum pieces might not show much wear, but then again, most museums pick the best specimens to put on display, or ones that have some sort of historical importance. They aren't looking for the "average" anything, of it's day, in 99% of cases.



J.C.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

Except for the fact that the bluing we see now isn't the bluing that was used then

Actually, the dark blue/black we have today was how the guns were finished back in the day. Charcoal bluing was an option, as well as nickle plating, but most guns new looked just as they do today. Here are a few examples off the 'net of sample guns that retain a fair amount of their original colors (though somewhat faded due to age):

Dark blue bluing had been around since the eighteenth century, and was quite common by the middle of the nineteenth century. It is a common misconception to believe all guns were charcoal blued... Colt called their blue (and still do) "Royal Blue", and it is still in use today.

 

[BigBlock]

From all the reading I've done on 1858's, I'm pretty sure they were available in both nickel plate and "in the white". Personally, I have an Iver Johnson revolver circa 1898 and all of the bluing is worn off except in the cylinder flutes.

 

[sundance44s]

After I deblue I rub with 00 steelwool to remove the golden color from spots ..then oil . The Italian steel seems worse for this , never had the problem with barrels made in the USA...like GreenMountain barrels .

 

[dstorm1911]

JT, very nice catch there All of my originals still retain most of their blue as well, a pair of colts I got outa missuri had been wrapped in rags and the packed in axle grease and hidden onder a barn floor along with the rifles etc... as the Union troops took over the farm near Joplin while searching for CAS guerrillas, I've got the diary pages tellin bout how the boys hid the weapons so they'd draw less attention etc.. they were never retrieved and forgotten for 140 years... still in perfect shape except one has rust pitting on one side were it wasn't fully sealed... 75% bluing on em and they were used very heavily as these gurilla fighters relied on the 6 shooters...

your average real cowboy seldom took a 6 gun outa his saddle bag, they were in the way while carried in a holster as he tried to work etc.. the rifle was the one that saw all the use and abuse, the six shooters primary use was in town not out while mending fences or branding cattle....... the only ones who carried em regularily were those who didn't do actual physical work for a living the lawmen (and it generally hardly ever left the holster) or the outlaw or gambler etc... the working man didn't need it bangin into stuff or weightin his pants down etc..... so if he even owned a 6 shooter (they were considered a waste of money when a good rifle could do more) it lived in the saddle bag... and ya would not find em firein off the six shooter to get cattle moving etc.. per hollywood, whistles and popped whips but wasting powder and lead needlesly was money wasted.....

folks confuse the hollywood cowboy with reality all the time but then according to hollywood........ we had 1873s in 1864 too

 

[Riot Earp]

Desert Scorpion's Remington looks very good. I actually like the gray look. If kept meticulously oiled, the gun shouldn't rust.

As for me, I want to remove about 30% of the bluing on my new Uberti Remington. Could I simply use 0000 steel wool over oil? I want it to look used but well cared for. I would think that this method would give me more control than using blue remover or an acid.

I don't like shiny blue/black finishes on 19th Century guns. I don't know, they just don't look right to me.

 

[dstorm1911]

0000 steel wool, for the overall finish but start with 1200 grit wet dry paper on the sharp edges don't rub it just kinda swipe the paper across those areas to polish off the blue and then follow up with the steel wool to reduce the thickness of the blue and after a few weeks the exposed polished areas will begin to dull and look more natural..... faster depending on where ya live, the tip of the muzzle, the top strap and the edges of the cylender the bottom back and front of the grip frame should be very thin all sharp edges should be polished and lightly rounded...... don't forget the wood grips will get the same amount of "wear" the left side grip usually has more wear than the right from rubbing against the hip etc.. the right side gets most of the nicks and dings from bein carried...... the left side of the barrel usually has less blue than the right side again from rubbing against the hip/leg as the holster rebounds off your body it creates more wear to the finish on the side thats against your body.

 

[Riot Earp]

Thanks, dstorm. I'll give it a try.

 

[Malamute]

"Sure, those museum pieces might not show much wear, but then again, most museums pick the best specimens to put on display, or ones that have some sort of historical importance. They aren't looking for the "average" anything, of it's day, in 99% of cases."



Tha Cody museum has a wide variety of guns, not just the cream of the crop. Very few are so worn that they show no blue at all, and some show a lot of heavy use. I'm not trying to be contrary, just point out that even heavily used guns kept most or a lot of their finish. Someboby mentioned that today we generally dont use our guns as hard as "back in the day", tho a few of us have. I have several guns that I have literally worn every day all day for several years, and some of the living was hard (See below) I still walk every day in the hills, and the guns go rain or snow or sunshine. I even clean them,....once in a while,....if they really needed it. I know I have gone 6 months, and a year at a time with one Smith 29 between real cleaning, other than a dusting with a tooth brush every few months. It was carried daily. They still show a lot of blue, tho the high spots wear off. If I can figure out this new digital camera, I'll try to post pics of a couple.

 

[packarat]

Ok, I think we have pretty much established that the deep blued finish was in place a century and a half ago. I'm almost sorry I brought it up

Big Block you brought up a finish that was called "in the white". Do you have a description or preferably a pic that shows what this looks like? Curiosity is killing me as I so thought these guns were available without any finish.

Either way I think I just like the metal look, regardless of my blunder that they were available in nickel instead of stainless. I just do not like the hop along cassidy shiny good guy gun look. This was the reason I purchased the blued finish in the 1858. After lurking on a few posts of antiqueing I felt the need to strip mine of it's blue.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks to everyone for posting...I must now jump over to the revolver forum to start a thread on why the modern DA/SA would be the choice of the modern day cowboy

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

"In the white" means that the guns were left without finish. The Colts were all blued, with the exception of the Walker, where the cylinder was left "in the white", probably due to the rush to get the guns delivered. As far as Remmies are concerned, I'll have to take BigBlock's word on this as I don't know much about these guns. Any gun produced without finish would have been highly polished to avoid rusting, especially due to the poor quality of the steel available at the time. The gray patina everyone likes (me included) is the result of many, many years of aging and fading. No new gun would have looked this way. If you want a gun that looks "NIB", it should be blued, nickled, or left with a high polish.