1858 project: removing the blue

[Malamute]

Packarat, don't feel bad about doing what you like to your gun. All old guns are cool. We can choose how we like them. I change things on many of my guns, and not everyone agrees with my taste (I like receiver sights and slings on my Winchesters and Brownings).



There are a few old pics of guns in the white. I believe that many of the Springfield percussion muzzle loading rifles used in the Civil War were left in the white, at least the barrels were. I also believe that some Henry's were left in the white.


It doesn't take too long carrying a nickel plated pistol for the nickel to take on a "soft" look, rather than the ultra shiny look of a new nickel finish. Old nickel can look like stainless.

 

[Jamie C.]

Dark blue bluing had been around since the eighteenth century, and was quite common by the middle of the nineteenth century. It is a common misconception to believe all guns were charcoal blued... Colt called their blue (and still do) "Royal Blue", and it is still in use today.

I'm aware of that. However, I used to get drug around the various civil war museums and battlefields in Chattanooga quite a bit... Saw an awful lot of old guns there. Some looked like they had never been fired or used at all, others looked like they were used hard every single day of their existence right up 'til they were turned over to the museum.

Not the first one had the same color you find on modern guns. Not one. Sure, some were darker than charcoal blue, but not one was the almost-black that we see now.

When I asked about it, the answer I got was that not only were the processes and chemicals used a bit different then, but that the steel was as well.

So, I'm betting that while Colt might still use the name "Royal Blue", it's not what was on their guns 140 years ago.

Oh, and one other thing; soft steel or iron wears quicker than hard steel. Bluing, not being a hardening agent like say Glock's Tennifer process, won't make a gun wear any less. So the softer steel of those old guns will wear and polish down at least a bit quicker than say my old Ruger that I carried around so much, given the same conditions.




J.C.

 

[Riot Earp]

packarat:

Flitz polish (amazing stuff) removes surface rust beautifully, with no harm to the underlying steel. It also removes burn rings from cylinders with surprising ease.

 

[dstorm1911]

Rust blueing was used quite a bit, the better the metal was polished prior to bluing the more "blue" the color would come out this was why its called "bluing" to begin with, a rougher finish resulted in a greyish blue color....... Hot tank bluing was a modern means of speeding up the rusting process through chemical reaction to start and then stop the Rusting process, shades can vary wildly from one batch to the next as it really is an art more than anything, the amount of salts that can be dissolved in the tank is totally dependant on how hot the water is and how consistently that temperature is maintained etc.. in the 19th Century ya woulda been using coal most probably for heating your blueing tanks so think bout trying to keep an even dead on consistant temp..

your looking for 292 degrees and as ya add metal to the tank that temperature will try to drop so ya gotta attempt to keep it consistant....... different metals will interact differently with the bluing salts and will heat at different temperatures, my tanks at the Shop use 3 thermostats and propane gas burners that are controled by those 3 thermostats I use Oxynate No. 7 as the bluing salts 40 lbs of it to 4 gallons of purified water thats basically a 5 gallon bucket of salts at room temp the tank is like its solid cement but at 292 degrees its boiling.... now just imagine tryin to do this with 19th century technology as this is the same as the earliest hot tank bluing operations..

Now the #1 key is the ellimination of all contaminants, even a lil hard water not noticed in a crevice or heaven forbid a few drops of oil can ruin the entire tank of solution...... now go back to what was available in the way of water purification, degreasing, etc... in 1840 or so.........

 

[Joe the Redneck]

The guns we see today are the ones that survived. They may not represent the wear patterns of typical guns of the period.

I say who cares? Make the gun look the way you want it too look.

I stripped a 58, I used navel jelly. Stinky but no problem. I hit it hard with 200 grit paper and browned it. I had already beat up the stocks and rubbed "brass black" on and off the frame. You want the parts where you hand touches it lighter than the nooks and cranneis. I don't there were any brown revolvers, but I am pleased with the results.

Joe

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

Not the first one had the same color you find on modern guns. Not one. Sure, some were darker than charcoal blue, but not one was the almost-black that we see now

Well, now, you've got to take into consideration what 150+ years of oxidation and exposure to UV will do to a finish. I'm betting that the bone case hardening wasn't too brilliant on these guns, either? Considering the processes involved, there were unquestionably wild variations in the depth of color... Too many folks seem to think charcoal bluing was the only finish on these guns, but by the time they were being produced, charcoal bluing was fast becoming an archaic process and was rarely used.

Tell you what; let's wait another 150 years and see what the modern guns look like, shall we? If they look exactly as they do today... I'll buy you a coffee!

And, yes, Colt still uses the same "Royal Blue" as they always have. Tradition, you know...

 

[Jamie C.]

Well, now, you've got to take into consideration what 150+ years of oxidation and exposure to UV will do to a finish.

Some of the guns I'm speaking of were cased sets that never really saw the light of day, so UV isn't really an issue. And 150 years of normal oxidation wouldn't leave much to look at.

They were more or less presentation pieces that were put away and not used. Future museum pieces, you might say.
Their finish now is not too far removed from what they looked like brand-new.
You don't have to take my word for it though... Go to the Tennessee Civil War Museum in Chattanooga and see for yourself. It's worth the price of admission.

I can promise you you'll see things there that'll make you go "Well I'll be damned". ( A 5 ft. long musket with a 4 ft. "sword-bayonet" for instance... the thing must've weighed 20 pounds. )

Oh, and I never said charcoal bluing was the only finish these guns got. I only mentioned that it was less durable than modern bluing.

One way or the other, the steels used these days is much different than the simple stuff used 150 years ago. Instead of it being simply iron with carbon added ( simple steel ), there's all sorts of stuff that is alloyed into it. Each additional element thrown into the mix will have an effect on what can be done to color it, and how long/well that color will hold up.

And we won't even get into heat treatment... Several folks have written entire books on that one subject alone.

So, don't get it into your head that what's done now is what was done then. It ain't. The modern-made reproductions might be a fair representation, mechanical-wise, but that's about all they are. On a chemical level they're quite a bit different.



J.C.

 

[foob]

Oh, and I never said charcoal bluing was the only finish these guns got. I only mentioned that it was less durable than modern bluing.

From what I've read from americanlongrifles.com and muzzloadingforum.com, real charcoal bluing (immersing in pure charcoal for a few hours) is much more durable than modern hot salt bluing. It's suppose to be as durable as rust bluing or browning.

 

[Riot Earp]

An employee at Turnbull Restoration told me pretty much the same.

Uberti's "charcoal" bluing isn't real charcoal bluing. A marketing strategy. That's it. By contrast, Turnbull's finish is very durable.

 

[icy]

J.T. Gerrity wrote:

"In the white" means that the guns were left without finish. The Colts were all blued, with the exception of the Walker, where the cylinder was left "in the white", probably due to the rush

Uberti is offering "white finish" for all replicas as special order. I have Colt Walker and is a nice gun.

 

[Dithsoer]

How exactly is charcoal bluing done anyway? I've always suspected that it was by heating the metal to a high degree while being surrounded by charcoal, but that would just case-harden it (the metal would be absorbing the carbon from the charcoal instead of bone black or burnt leather). I have heated steel to deep blue when tempering before (if you have ever heat treated you know what I'm talking about) and it looked and "wore" about the same as the charcoal bluing I've seen on firearms.