1903 vs. AR15 for target practic, and price

[Limeyfellow]

Luckily sporterising a 1903 destroys pretty much all their value and will lower the price considerably, but you still going to pay a pretty penny for something that probably had 60-80 years service through it. Some are totally shot out and some will get you up to a 2 MOA accuracy on the half a dozen or so I have owned and used.

It probably be cheaper and more accurate in the end to iron sight something more commercial. Most Springfields that are sporterised just have the stock cut down, maybe the metal redone and drilled and tapped from old surplus. You tend to find them in the $400 range if you can find them.

CMP 1903s are in their standard issue form. Usually they been rebuilt numerous times, barrels range from good to poor and it can be a bit of a lottery, though you can always go down there and handpick.

For an excellent conditioned, well shooting 03, you are going to pay lots of money.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Is a 1.8 to 1.9 barrel ok, the RRA Standard A4 has a 1.9 and canbe upgraded to a Stainless Steel 1.8, I will not hunt over 150 yards with an AR.

Thanks

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Deer hunting, and bobcats (if I ever see one).

 

[benzy2]

1:8 should work fine for hunting bullets. I found my 1:9" twist would stabilize right up to 69gr SMK. I never tried any of the hunting bullets so I don't know if it would handle the 70gr barnes TSX but I doubt it would work with the 75gr swift. 1:8 should handle the 75gr pills just fine. I think 1:8" will work with up to 80gr bullets. I know above that you want to be using a 1:7" twist. I have never shot hunting bullets, or at least anything other than varmint hunting bullets from my .223 so I'm not real sure on what is the best in that situation.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

For the most part I'll be using cheap ammo, and good bullets for long range target and hunting, are the Federal GMM good for a 1:8 or 1:9?

 

[benzy2]

I think they use the 69gr smk so it should be fine out of a 1:9 twist. The worry is that the hunting bullets for deer are going to be pushing the very heavy side of .223 bullets and will need a faster twist to stabilize them.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Ok, should have said tie earlier, but what does "stabalize" mean?

Buy hunting bullets I ment head shots within 150, but more realisticly 50 or less yards, not in the heart/lung area.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Sorry about the dumba$$ question

 

[AirplaneDoc]

I am sure that someone will provide you a more detailed answer. The short answer to "stabilized" is... As weight of the bullet changes, the faster or slower the bullet needs to spin in order for it to spin properly. (Think throwing a spiral in football). There is a great variation in bullet weights for .223 from light 45gr to 70gr or so, with the middle of the range as standard bulk ammo 55 gr.

Heavier bullet = faster spin.

Spin 1 full revolution of bullet in X inches of barrel length.

 

[gvnwst]

As weight of the bullet changes, the faster or slower the bullet needs to spin in order for it to spin properly.

Not quite. The LONGER the bullet, faster the twist. But, heavier usually means longer, so.... bullets are spun so they will fly strait, if you under stabilize the bullet, it will start to fly sideways.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Ok, so can I assume that a 1:9 is a slower rate than a 1:7

In this case, it would seem like a 1:8 would be the best all around, because unless it's a nice day with no clouds and good conditions, I'll be taking my R700, and leave the AR back in camp.

Untill I get REALLY confident in my abillities that AR will be a paper killa'

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Other advantage of the AR is if you really get into long range shooting, it is much easier to buy or have built a top notch target upper.

You can also have ammo burning upper that is fun to shoot if you want. I have 1 lower and 2 uppers. 1 target from Whiteoak Armarment and a std mill set up for just shooting.

AD

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Well, yea, that's a good thing about ARs, can't do THAT with a 1903 Springfield.

Oh yea, I got a Remington 700 for long range shooting, aulthough ARs are very accuate. I get your point though, a target and ammo setup, good idea

 

[benzy2]

the 1:9 etc is the twist rate of the barrel. It means that the rifling makes one full 360 rotation in the barrel over 9 inches. A 1:7 twist will make one full rotation in 7 inches of barrel. The lower the number the faster the rifling is turning in the barrel which means the faster the bullet will be turned when it is shot. The closer to a round ball the bullet is the less spin it needs to stay rotating and not start to tumble end over end. The longer the bullet the faster it needs spun to stay stable in flight. Stabilization is like the spin needed on a football to keep it in a spiral and not tumbling end over end. Too little spin and you get the bullets hitting sideways. That is why you can't really shoot the longer(which is almost always heavier) bullets through a slow twist barrel. On the other side spinning light/short bullets in a fast twist barrel used to be more of an issue than it is today. Originally the jackets on the really light bullets were very thin to make them open up on varmints easier. When these bullets were spun in the much faster twist barrels the jackets would rip off. Some people claim that when spun too fast(but not fast enough to come apart) any slight imperfection in the balance of the bullet shows more and opens groups up. I can't say I have noticed it but I can't say I am to the point where my groups are so small that very small balance issues are the biggest issue.

The deer bullets for .223 remington tend to be on the heavier side for the round and as such need a fast twist barrel to stay spinning in a spiral. The long range bullets also tend to be as long as physically possible. The longer the bullet is the more wind resistance it has. At real long ranges the wind pushes a shorter bullet around much more than a longer one. The guys shooting paper at known distances at 500+ yards want the really long bullets to have as little wind drift as possible making their job of judging the wind much easier. The down side to these long heavy bullets is that they don't travel as fast and are being lobbed in much more than the lighter bullets. For people shooting at unknown distances it is often of benefit to use lighter bullets since you won't have time to take a sighter shot, then adjust the scope/irons for elevation. Varmint hunters shoot quite a varying distance and love the fastest flattest shooting rounds they can get. For one it means they have to deal with distance changes less and second it is devastating to the animals.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Thanks for the knowledge benzy2, I really needed to learn that part of shooting.

I appreciate it



I think i've got a good idea now on what to buy; a Rock River Arms Standard A4, and buy their detachable carry handle.

Good buy, right?

 

[benzy2]

It is a great rifle that will be a lot of fun. If I could have found one when I was shopping for an AR again it was my first choice.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Ok, now all I've got to do is save up some money, thanks to all of the replies, I needed help deciding.

Thanks again,
P.B. Walsh