1911...are they really THAT much better???

[Thomas Garrett]

I too like Tamlin started with a Ruger P-90, .45 for my first semi-automatic. Felt like a brick, no accuracy after 15 yards. Decided to trade for a SA Mil-Spec. .45. Got the "Bug". Now I've got 3 different 1911A1-s in my barn. Looking now for a 6". Fantastic design.

 

[BADUNAME4]

"Beware the man with one 1911. He's probably an American, doesn't like to be told what to do and flee'd your wretched country because of it. He'll leave you alone if you leave him alone."

 

[FlyinBryan]

Qoute "your unit was a p.o.s.?"
FlyinBryan - I believe you owe me an apology.

your absolutely right.

i read it completly wrong.

you typed the rest in my unit, and for some reason i read the rest of my unit.

my apoligies.

 

[Water-Man]

1911's are nice shooting pistols. But for self defense/combat situations I'll stick with my SIG P220.

 

[hinton03]

1911's are awesome and I own 2, S&W and Colt revolvers are awesome and I own 5, Kahrs, Glocks and High Powers are awesome....... I guess just like quality firearms; why limit yourself?

Buy the best you can afford and shoot them as much as you can.

What do I carry; it depends?

- S&W M49 Pocket Carry
- Colt DS Pocket Carry (coat)
- Kahr K9 IWB
- Custom Commander IWB
- S&W 327 NG OWB
- 4" Python OWB
- RRA 5" 1911 OWB and night stand
- Glock 32 truck gun in a fanny pack with flashlight, knife and 2 extra mags

 

[Coronach]

Larry Vickers is a huge fan of the 1911, and even he will admit that we live in a Glock world (his term, not mine). So, when asking the question "is it better?", I think it behooves one to simultaneously ask "for what?" and "for whom?"

For a person carrying a weapon as a fighting tool, and for a person willing to take the time, effort and money to develop skills, obtain quality equipment, consider options and accept the ones that work and discard the ones that don't regardless of preconceived notions or internet gadgetry hooplah, and maintain said equipment with enthusiasm, I think the 1911 (and loosely associated designs, like the BHP) have a HECK of alot going for them, 100 years later. Yes, they require some additional effort to master and have some drawbacks, but they also offer truly superb ergonomics, which help immensely when one has to "be slow in a hurry."

OTOH, modern duty pistols are a hodgepodge of features (both beneficial and dubious), ergonomics (good and bad), and quality (high and low). What they do very well, though, is allow shooters to become minimally competent with a minimum of effort, allow them to be accurate enough, have rounds enough, and the designs are reliable enough (at least). In short, they're designed to be used as plug and play tools, requiring a minimum of upkeep and attention and a minimal development of skill on the part of the user. This is NOT necessarily a bad thing.

Now, be certain to not hear what I did not say. I did NOT say that everyone wielding a 1911 is a ninja pistolero, and I did NOT say that anyone using a Glock, M&P, XD, etcetcetc is a barely-competent know-nothing. What I did say is that modern duty pistol designs are supposed to run well out of the box, and work good enough with almost everyone, and be acceptable in every dimension. There are a lot of really good shooters who prefer them and excel at shooting them. The 1911 is less plug and play, has many more variations than any one of the duty pistols, and has a LOT more variance in quality, since everyone from master gunsmiths to your neighbor's crazy uncle is producing them. As such, they require more effort to select, maintain and master. What they offer, though, is worth it to the people who take the time to work with them.

Full Disclosure: I own a BHP, 1911, two M&Ps and a Glock. I prefer them in that order.

Mike

 

[007BondJamesBond007]

A fellow DJ and me took a novice shooter to the range to help her pick out a semi-auto. He brought 3 Glocks a 9mm 40 S&W and ,45 ACP.
I brought my .45ACP Kimber Clasic Stainless Gold Match 1911. She shot all four pistols and she was more accurate with the Kimber and when asked which one she wanted she said Kimber. Even my freind with the Glocks shot better with the Kimber and said that was going to be his next pistol. I have fired his Glocks. I didn't have any problems with the Glocks and my shots and grouping was good the Glock just didn't feel like my Kimber. I will not trade my Kimber for two Glocks.

 

[foghornl]

I have tried the polymer-frame .45ACP pistols, and they don't "fit" my hands very well....those feel hmmmmm "odd" to me.

There is just 'something' about a 5" barrel .45ACP that has "1911-A1" stamped on it.....

 

[Legasat]

I love my M&P and Ruger Security Six. I know from renting them, a 1911 does not shoot any more accurate. I know that it is heavier, and I know it holds less rounds.

I still want one, and I know that I will have one soon.

Can't explain it, I just know.

Gary G

 

[Clarence]

Well, I certainly prefer a 1911 to every other kind of handgun. Next favorite would be an N-Frame S&W. I guess I'm just old school. I've owned a number of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs but I still prefer the 1911.............I guess they really are THAT much better to me.

 

[Hoxviii]

I'm in the same boat as Clarence- hands down my favorite semi auto, and handun in general is the 1911 platform. My second favorite handgun being the N-frame.

Both are big, heavy, "low capacity", old designs but they fit me and my shooting style VERY well.

The 1911 doesn't even have to be a "high dollar" gun to be accurate and reliable. I have an RIA A1 (same price range as a S&W Sigma)that has only ever had reliability issues that could be traced to one specific magazine and will keep 8 shots touching at 25 yards

As was said earlier, it's like old cars. You either know why you own them or it could never possibly be fully articulated into words to a "non-believer".

 

[Coronach]

One of the things that I have noticed is that a lot of people say that the 1911 is no more accurate than XYZ pistol. Frankly? They're probably right. Most 1911s are not match accurized, and they're probably no more of less accurate than you average duty gun. So when you take the time to Ransom rest the gun, or shoot very deliberate slow-fire groups, the results are probably similar from one to the other, when looking at a milspec 1911 and an out-of-the-box modern duty gun. There will be exceptions to this, of course, but in general both are only average, but both are definatly "good enough".

Where many people will see a difference is in rapid, combat-style shooting. Assuming equal practice/familiarity, many people will shoot a 1911 faster and better than they will other guns. JMB got the ergos and the trigger "right" 100 years ago. Now, this is certainly not true for everyone, and even if it is true for someone it doesn't mean they cannot learn to shoot another gun better than they can a 1911. It just means that the gun is very naturally pointable, well balanced and fits properly for most people, all of which makes it more easy to use effectively.

Mike

 

[David E]

I carried a 1911 in combat and it, along with the rest in my unit, were POS's. I bought a Sig back in the 80's and it is a better combat gun than any 1911 I've seen in service.

If your only exposure to the 1911 was in the military, then no wonder you feel like you do !

When I was in (76-80) the NEW 1911's were 40+ years old !

I wonder how well other designs, including your Sig 220, would hold up to 40+ years of serious use and abuse?

.

 

[Butter]

I have to go with the other 1911 proponents on this board. Not to say it really is any better, but picked up a used Kimber and at about 25 ft put the first 4 bullets in an 8 round mag through the same hole while slow firing. Do that often enough before the other bullets start spreading the fun out a bit that it is not just a fluke.

No, I’m not a great shot, but can hit what I aim at when reasonable distances are concerned; and for my smallish hands a 1911 just plain feels comfortable. And if it’s a comfortable tool, you can make it work better for you than something less so.

I like my XDs and have an M&P as well, and they all shoot great. They are all more easily disassembled to clean as well. But the trigger pull on a good 1911 is about as good as it gets bar none. And this is coming from a short, small handed guy.

But beware, before you get the bug, that 1911s do multiply and start to cost more and more as you peruse other shooters’ wears in the 1911 platform and become a wistful with what could be had for mucho grande ching-aling. Yeah, just picked up a Les Baer.

 

[41magsnub]

I want to like the 1911 but it just does not fit my hand at all. A M&P just feels way more natural to me.

 

[Gamera]

They're sexy in a manly sort of way
(and of course I can't pass up this opportunity to show off my new one again)

 

[Sapper771]

I would have to say that it would depend on what the purpose of the pistol will be. I carry Glock on duty, but I carry my CQB or Trojan off duty. I shoot the 1911 better than any other pistol I own. The Grip angle allows the pistol to point naturally, which is extremely important in combat shooting. I tend to lean toward using the flash sight picture method and I am successful in getting hits any where from 3 to 20 yards with the 1911. With my Glock 21 SF, the accuracy difference is there, but this is in my hands. I am successful in getting hits with the 21SF in the same engagement ranges as the 1911s, but I can excel with the Glock at 20 to 25 yards......which is odd I guess.
The 1911 does have a limited capacity, but 10 round mags are available. Generally with training, the mag capacity issue becomes non-existent. To me, the mag capacity would be an issue in a duty weapon due to dealing with shoot outs involving suspects armed with automatic weapons. The extra capacity would be handy in providing cover fire for manuevering officers. As you can see , there are several variables at play. Is there a perfect weapon for every situation? NO.
The 1911, in my experience, points well, shoots well, carrys well. When I go to the range for the BBQs and the get togethers, the 1911s always hold the attention. When I open my range bag , out of 3 Glocks and 1 1911, they will 99% of the time, go for the 1911. They do have the appeal. They also have a rich history of being in the hands of Americans during dark times, and as a Veteran, It is a piece of history to me. It is as they say as American as apple pie.
The 1911 is extremely customizable. Just about every part to the 1911 can be fitted to the needs of the shooter or the job.
The 1911 is a very shootable pistol. I know shooters who can shoot Glocks extremely well, and I also know those who dont shoot them well. I have yet to meet someone that cant shoot the 1911 well, but I dont get out much and my range time is often spent with close friends and no strangers.

In conclusion, is the 1911 really worth it ? to me, YES! A properly set up and maintained 1911 will provide you with an exception pistol that can fill several gaps. Does it have to be a $2500 custom setup from one of the Big 3 ? No. A good quality GI 1911 will serve its intended purpose. Whats good about it, if you decide to shoot competition or target, the 1911 can be modified to meet the need.
I can not say that the 1911 is the best thing out there and it may not be the best pistol to answer all situations, but it is worth its weight in my book.

 

[doubs43]

IMO, the 1911 is the finest combat handgun ever. It has 98 years behind it with over 75 years of military service... maybe more if foreign service is figured. It remains very popular and shows no signs of slowing down.

The other, supposedly "better" pistols, do not have the years of military service in the worst possible conditions to lay claim to the being "the best". They come and they go, often replaced by "better" designs but the 1911 is pretty much the same pistol as John Browning designed nearly 100 years ago. There is no better testimony to the quality of a design than being seen as young and exciting a century after birth.

So yes, the 1911 IS that much better. The record speaks for itself.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

My Colt 1911 thinks, therefor it is.

 

[BADUNAME4]

The only time a plastic gun would have served me better was when once, while in the Corps, I pee'ed on myself. I constantly cleaned my gun anyway, but steel and pee don't mix.

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

Go to a gun store. Ask to hold a Colt Series 70. Then get back to me.

 

[wario]

no peace...

There is such a thing as the best of both worlds...

I've got (and have had) a number of 1911's... and am totally addicted to them. Balance, profile, grip, and the trigger... (drool) make them hard to beat as my first choice of the gun I pick up when I want to shoot. But, they're all tanks as far as conceal carry. My all time favorite is a KAHR PM9 followed closely by my trusty stead Glock 26. I wish I could find a 1911 that was as concealable and light weigh as the KAHR or Glock. If I could, then I'd only need one gun... but, for now I have 2 (+) guns. And, let the nay sayers flame away - but, truth be told is that I can use my Glock to can carve smiley faces in the targets pert near just as good if not better than my 1911's...

And, before you start, the Kimber is no full Poly Girl either. There's a full skeletonized S/S and Aluminum frame under that custom poly and 10 round mag capacity...

 

[David E]

I want to like the 1911 but it just does not fit my hand at all. A M&P just feels way more natural to me.

A 1911 was the original "replaceable backstrap" gun and has many things you can change to make it fit you better.

If it doesn't feel "right," replace the mainspring housing with a flat or arched one.

Trigger reach too long or short? Replace the trigger with one of a different length.

Grip circumference too big or little? Replace them with thin or thick grips.

Grip safety tang drive into your hand? Replace it with an Ed Brown Memory Groove version.

Grip a little short? Add an S&W Magwell and get another 1/4" of length.

I don't know of any other gun that allows you to change and tweak so many different aspects of the basic grip as a 1911

 

[maskedman504]

1911 = small block, push rod V8

personalize, customize, tweak, etc. All kinds of things you can do to it do make it yours. Classic. (think '69 Camaro)

polymers = DOHC, variable valve timing 24v inline 6 cylinders

optimized from the get go, modern. Not a whole lot you can do or would want to do to it. (think Acura)

Both are good, but they accomplish different things.


/thread

 

[rduckwor]

In a word yes. A good 1911, that fits the shooter well is a combination that cannot be beat. JMB got it right.

I love this quote from above:

"Beware the man with one 1911. He's probably an American, doesn't like to be told what to do and flee'd your wretched country because of it. He'll leave you alone if you leave him alone."

.

How very true. Ask the French.

RMD