1911 break-in, jams, help!

[armedpolak]

Hi there!
I just got my first 1911-A1. It's Springfield: http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-fs.shtml
The PX9154L, brand new.

Now, i took it to the range last night, and put 300 rounds through it. Jammed 3 times while loading a round in the chamber. I shot Winchester 230gr FMJ .45.

Is this normal?

Also, the gun has a guiding rod below the barrel, which unscrews. It came of by about 3-5 milimiters. I noticed when I was done shooting does that mean it wasn't tight enough?

 

[ocharry]

hi armedpolak,,, did you clean the gun before you shot it??? i would take it apart and clean it and keep it lubed good and try it again,,when i was running mine in i would take an oil bottle to the range with me and give it a drink after every couple of mags.,,,, keep it wet and run a few hundred more rounds through it for break in,,,,, as for the FLG,,i don't have any trouble with mine.. i keep the threads dry when i put it together...some guys here don't care for them and change them out to the standard guide and plug,,, or a one piece rod...if mine would not stay tight i would change it just my .02 YMMV

ocharry

 

[1911WB]

1911 feeding problem

If you're feeding rounds directly into the chamber without running them thru the mag, stop! The pistol was designed for the extractor to pick up the case rim when fed thru the mag- you'll break the extractor if you manually insert rounds directly into the chamber. I don't like the two-piece guide rods and replace them with the standard GI (short) guide rod and plug. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[brownie0486]

Failuers to feed? Look at polishing the feed ramp to a mirror finish.

I just bought a Champion SA, first thing when it came home was to polish the feed ramp, degrease/de-oil it, lube it with my own choice and then go fire it. 200 rds with no problems at all.

Feed ramps can be left with small tool marks, hardly noticeable, but there which can cause the problem you describe. It also needs another 500 rds before I would consider it's "broken in" period over and be looking for it to smooth out with no more issues.

Brownie

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

+1 on getting a 1 peice guide rod...

But as far as the FTF's are concerned, you are going to have that in 1911's for the first few hundred rounds...Also, I would a couple of Wilson Combat Mags too. They are kind of expensive for what they are, but they are well worth it.

 

[brownie0486]

I've had better luck with Tripp Research Cobra mags in my 1911's from SA. You might want to check that company as well.

http://www.trippresearch.com/index.htm

Brownie

 

[Walkalong]

Have we come to this. We EXPECT our 1911's to fail a lot for a few hundred rounds before they work? If they do they weren't right to start with. They should work right out of the box. John Browning would be turning over in his grave. :banghead: I guess I'm just cranky today.

 

[brownie0486]

We EXPECT our 1911's to fail a lot for a few hundred rounds before they work? If they do they weren't right to start with.

I don't expect them to fail, but I've owned enough of them NIB that have in their initial 500 rds to know they can and do a majority of the time.

What they "should" do NIB and how they actually perform are two distinct and seperate realities.

Brownie

 

[Old Fuff]

Brownie:

Got a question....

If it's necessary to take a new gun out of the box, polish the feed ramp and barrel throat, soak it in lubricant, and shoot x-number of rounds through it to break it in....

How the heck did we ever get through World Wars One and Two???

Obviously each and every pistol manufactured (and they were made in the millions) never went through any such procedure...

Uncle Sam's pistols didn't even have the barrels throated, and they fed the same ball ammunition that armedpolak was using.

Might we possibly have a problem with an undersized chamber, extractor tension and/or fit, or a magazine issue - all of which are not unusual in Springfield Armory pistols? Or maybe an undersized firing pin stop is letting the extractor clock... that's also been known to happen.

Tis' really sad that folks can be conned into the idea that after they buy a new gun it's their responsibilty to spend more money on ammunition to supposedly break it in.

Springfield and/or the dealer that sold this turkey should get it right back. That's what a warantee is for. And incidentally, you didn't mention that doing some of the work you recommended might void the warantee and leave armedpolak holding the bag - with a pistol that still didn't run.

Meanwhile armedpolak can use the forum's search feature to find the numerous threads that will explain the many problems that his and other new 1911 style pistols have out-of-the-box.

 

[10-Ring]

I have a new commander size 1911 that has a slight hiccup right now. Not a big deal tho, she'll be fine.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Walkalong said: I guess I'm just cranky today.

I think so, too.


DON'T polish the feed ramp . . . yet. If you don't know what you're doing, you can ruin it. First, degrease it and clean it.

Then, shoot it. If you're used to shooting another type of gun, it might just take some getting used to. Really. It sounds silly, but sometimes different gun designs just need to be shot differently. You'll get used to it.

Are you loading from the magazine? How? Hitting the slide stop? Pulling and releasing the slide? Describe the misfeed better.


If its a problem feeding from the magazine, sometimes different mags solves it. Maybe the mag is sticking on grease, a burr . . . sometimes the spring is backward I've seen it. Is it one mag, or all of them? You probably don't know; this is why numbering the mags can help.

 

[brownie0486]

Old Fuff;

He had a 1% failure rate on the new gun. Thats not at all uncommon in the 1911's when new, and actually seems to be low in percentage from others experiences with NIB 1911's.

I would not be prone to looking at issues like an undersized chamber, extractor tension and/or fit, or a magazine issue - all of which are not unusual in Springfield Armory pistols? at that round count with that failure rate if it were mine.

As to polishing the feed ramp, I mentioned he should look at doing it, whether he decided to perform that himself, have a local smith do it, or send it back to SA would be up to him. I'd be very surprised if SA voided a warranty for polishing the ramp on the barrel, but anything is possible.

I polished mine as mentioned before I fired it, as I have run these types of guns for close to 30 years now and it's cheap insurance to just get it out of the way. It doesn't hurt to polish it, and I believe it helps with feed reliability overall even when the gun does not exhibit any signs of it being necessary.

Tis' really sad that folks can be conned into the idea that after they buy a new gun it's their responsibilty to spend more money on ammunition to supposedly break it in.

It's not that way with all pistols. My glocks and sigs were never given cause to worry about breakin, and they in turn, never gave me cause to have to think they needed a "break in" of some kind, unlike the 1911 platforms.

Brownie

 

[brownie0486]

BullfrogKen;

Polishing a feed ramp can not ruin it. Polishing does not change the dimensions as you probably know. Gunsmiths perform that function all the time on 1911's.

If you meant to say that incorrect polishing of the ramp could ruin it, getting overzealous on the polishing, using the wrong tools to do so, etc could ruin it, that would be wise advice.

Brownie

 

[BullfrogKen]

I said: If you don't know what you're doing, you can ruin it.

He shouldn't do it. If that is indeed the problem, let Springfield fix it. Its new for Pete's sake, and folks with dremel tools who don't know what they're doing can ruin, yes ruin it with just one touch of a spinning dremel.

 

[brownie0486]

I hand polished mine

I'd find a gunsmith in the local area before I sent it back to SA for a polished feed ramp if that is the issue.

Again, 1% failure rate in the first 300 rds is no big deal, certainly not worth the money to send it back to them IMO.

As to the dremel to polish, of course you shouldn't use a "tool" you don't know how to use properly, nor attempt to work on a gun when you don't have the experience. I'll reiterate again, I mentioned looking into polishing the feed ramp, and did not suggest he do that himself nor use a dremel.

Brownie

 

[tango3065]

I have polished every auto that I have purchased with a dremel and motheres before the first round was ever fired out of the gun. As for a 1911 I have never owned one and have never had a desire for one but I hear of more online problems with the 1911 design than any other gun.

 

[daysleeprx]

How the heck did we ever get through World Wars One and Two???

Because we didn't fight WWI and WWII with only 1911 pistols!

 

[DogBonz]

ArmedPolak

I think what happened was that as you were firing, the guide rod worked loose, and was binding the slide. I had this happen on my Raptor. I eventually got rid of the guide rod, put in a GI style plug, and never had another problem. Try a little lock-tite on the threads of the guide rod, but make sure that you use the right kind. Use the wrong kind and you never get that thing apart. Or try a GI plug.

 

[Walkalong]

They should work right out of the box.

I still stand by this, and I'm still a little cranky.

Yup...Iv'e polished this and that after I made sure the gun would run right, but you should not have to do this to make it function. A smith I respect once said "If the throat is in the right place and at the right angle it will feed" ...... I believe it. Polishing is mostly to make it look pretty and make us feel good. Polishing triggers bows, etc. etc. is to make em smooth, not function better.

 

[brownie0486]

Walkalong;

A smith I respect once said "If the throat is in the right place and at the right angle it will feed

And I've had smiths who polished the ramps when there were ocassional FTF's on a new 1911 who told me thats what it needed [ because you could see the tool marks left from manufacturing then ], and when the work was performed, there were no more FTF's after that.

Iv'e polished this and that after I made sure the gun would run right, but you should not have to do this to make it function

If the remaining tool marks are sufficent enough, yes, you should have to do this to make it feed reliably. What they "should" do and what the 1911's actually do NIB are two different animals.

Guess it's half a dozen of one, six of another. Opinions of smiths are like, well, you know.

Brownie

 

[Old Fuff]

I am truly amazed at the gullibility of some 1911 style pistol buyers today.

It would seem that Glock's, SIG's, Beretta's, H&K's, Ruger's, etc. are expected to run, out-of-the-box, without any after-purchase gunsmithing, and to do so using the manufacturer's OEM magazines - and to be truthful, they usually do.

But not the current crop of 1911's made by different makers. Nope, people go out and spend their hard earned cash with the expectation they'll have to spend more bucks on some other brand of magazine(s), and pay a gunsmith to polish this and tweak that... simply to get the gun to run with ball ammunition. Then of course after that comes the break-in…

Brownie… I have a news flash. I have more then 20 years seniority on your 30 when it comes to 1911 pistols, and I can assure you I never had to break-in any of the USGI surplus pistols I bought (some new), and some of them went back to 1912. The same was true with Colt commercial’s I had, and have, running as far back as 1914, and forward to the early/middle 1960’s. These guns also functioned fine with the magazines that came in them. Sure I had some customizing and tuning done – but none of it was necessary simply to get the gun to go…

Because of the sloppy workmanship and questionable materials that are prevalent today, the 1911 pistol has earned a reputation of being finicky and unreliable. The contention that if one wants a reliable pistol they should buy a Glock, Sig, or whatever is not entirely false, although the truth is that a correctly built 1911 can keep up with these other brands. A Glock is a Glock. A SIG is a SIG, a Beretta is a Beretta, but today a 1911 pistol is a collection of parts, obtained from different sub-contractors, and put together by a company that simply puts the pieces together, while hoping to God the owner will try to fix it himself rather then return it under warrantee. :banghead:

Finely, why should a new owner (or his gunsmith) not check into the possibility of a tight chamber, mis-fit or incorrectly tensioned extractor, or a clocked extractor because of an out-of-tolerance firing pin stop before spending the bucks on 200 or more rounds of ammunition to test it out? Nowhere did I suggest that the owner should fix the problem, just discover it if there is one.

 

[brownie0486]

Old Fuff;

I concur with your assessement on the 1911's of today.

I also have and use milspec 1911's exclisively for the very reason you mention as well . None needed work to make them go well when purchased in the past like yourself.

My 1917, and 1943 both ran great, course they were used when I got them. Back in the day, the commander from 1971 ran NIB flawlessly. We both know the tolerances are tighter on them today than now as well as parts tolerances, and they get finicky because of it, just a fact of life.

I don't think a 1% failure rate in the first 300 rds on the new gun needs much attention. If the problems were present as you are suggesting, the failure rate would be considerably higher IMO and more consistant that 1% shows us.

I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as just commenting that the problems you suggest are not indicative of what he has experienced with the first 300 rds through the gun.

btw-I have a milspec 1982 SA thats been utterly reliable, but I did have Don Hamilton work it over when it had about 1K through it. Trigger work [ reduced pull weight ], and just overall checking it out for potentials as it was a carry piece on the street for over 20 years. It's as reliable as the day is long, and always has been. I trust the older milspecs, as you do.

Seems us old timers who have carrried them for some time know the difference between then and now. I was just addressing the "now", can't get around the fact most don't make em like they used to.

Brownie

 

[shaggycat]

As for a 1911 I have never owned one and have never had a desire for one but I hear of more online problems with the 1911 design than any other gun.

Have you considered that a lot of that has to do with the sheer number of 1911's out there? When so many people are buying them, comparing the number of complaints with that of another design is not a fair comparison.

 

[TX1911fan]

Every 1911 I've ever owned was fine, right out of the box.

 

[Walkalong]

I guess what makes me cranky is the fact that I am tired of the 1911 getting a bad rap when it should be blamed on poor manufacturing and machine work.

I'm tired of looking at XD's, Sig's, HK's, etc. with excellent machine work and then picking up a high end 1911 which looks like a machinest trainee did parts of it.

We keep buying them so we are partially to blame.(so I'm cranky with me too)

The 1911, if well machined to specs is a finely tuned machine. I guess I was spoiled. My first one was a Remington Rand and was awesome. Wish I still had it. :banghead:

Lets blame bad manufacturing, not the design.