1911 Bushing compensator and 1-piece FLGR

[Esoteria]

So two things from the get go. I am new to the concept, but there are two things I see pretty often with respect to 1911 comps.

(1) "Bushing compensators are useless because there's too much space around the bullet leaving the muzzle"
(2) "Compensators aren't useful for 45 ACP because the pressure is too low."

Please see this link regarding those things. It's not conclusive in the sense that it's based on a relatively small sample, but I still think it pretty much shuts down those two assessments.

Even if you disagree, I just wanted to get that out of the way to ask the real question:

I'm looking at the Wilson Combat Multi-Comp and I notice from the installation videos that the guide rod is reinstalled from within the slide *after* the compensator is installed. Is this strictly necessary?

The reason I ask is that my Kimber Custom II has a one-piece full-length guide rod with a plug short enough to accommodate the Multi-Comp. I like it just fine, but it doesn't come apart so I don't think it can be installed the way they recommend. However I can't see why I couldn't use the same reassembly procedure I do with a regular bushing anyway. When I looked into it I realized that my FLGR is kind of the exception to the rule, as it seems most come apart via an allen wrench or have a takedown hole drilled into them, but I've never used either of those.

I disassemble using either a bushing wreng (which wouldn't work with the comp) or the flat side of a magazine (which would) to push the plug down a little bit, then rotate the bushing by hand, pull out the plug and spring, rotate the bushing back, pull out the bushing, and then proceed with normal slide disassembly via the slide stop.

Any reason this process wouldn't work with a Multi-Comp? I guess I'm a little thrown off as I had thought all FLGRs followed the process above. I didn't even know the two-piece ones existed until I looked into the comp.

 

[Wildfire]

Comps

Comps work very when the round is tuned to it. Most race guns using them run higher PSI rounds to make the comps work.
Be careful, bushing comps are prone to breaking. If that happens??????

As long as it goes together right is should work right.
I have not owned a bushing tool yet.
You may also consider using a shock buff with or with out the comp. Way less wear on that frame.

Most guys I knew only used lead bullets when using comps. It is not a silencer and does not need extreme close clearance to work right. Hot gas goes up. Muzzle stays down.

 

[MikeInOr]

I just purchased a Clark drop in barrel with screw on compensator for my Springfield 1911 in .45 acp. It is not a race gun and I am not into competing it is just for fun at the range with friends.

For my practice loads - 230gr Winchester round nose with 4.8 grains of bullseye I can tell very little difference... but this is a pussy cat of a load to start with.

Stepping up to the same 230gr with 10gr of blue dot there is a very noticeable reduction in muzzle flip and felt recoil.

I tried to produce as much muzzle flash as possible (to maximize the compensator effect) with 185gr hollow base Berry's bullets over 10gr of Bluedot just this evening. This was the first I used Berry's 185 hollow base (There is actually a very large cavity in the base of the bullet not the nose of the bullet) and there isn't much loading data for them. Well this load would not cycle the action on my Springfield 1911 w/comp. I tried the load in my XDS 3.3" .45 and got a few stove pipes but it was the nicest shooting of the light weight XDS I have ever had. My ancient Norinco 1911 didn't hiccup a bit on any of the light loads.

I actually came to the range with the 185 hollow base Berry bullets loaded with 9.0gr, 9.5gr and 10gr of Bluedot. As well as 5.0 grains of Bullseye. My Norinco (no compensator) is the only thing that would cycle the lighter rounds.

I am going to load the 185gr Berry's with 10.3gr, 10.6gr and 10.9gr of Bluedot and go back out next week some time. Blue dot is a slow burning powder which should give lots of muzzle flash that I am hoping will let the compensator do its thing. I will probably also try the 185's with hotter loads of Bullseye (A much faster burning powder).

So far I am not in love with my new compensator. For smooth shooting and rapid follow up shot target acquisition a lighter target load makes more sense to me than a compensator. If you are competing I have read a 38 super makes a lot more sense with a compensator.

I will try to update after some more experimenting. I wonder if the 5 chamber comps work much better than my 3 chamber Clark comp? Or if comps on 45's just aren't that useful?

If you are just out shooting factory ammo I wouldn't bother with a comp in .45. If you enjoy experimenting and working up loads you might find a compensator a fun toy to play with. The main reason I got the compensator for the Springfield is because I hardly ever shoot the poor gun. I am ashamed to say my cheap Norinco 1911 (I bought it 20 years ago) is a much nice shooter than my some what expensive Springfield 1911.

Anyone else have any experience with compensators on a .45? Or good loads for a .45 comp? Or experience loading for Berry's 185gr hollow base bullets?

As far as the guide rod goes I ditched the 1 piece guide rod that came with the Springfield when I bought it from a friend many years ago and went back to the GI guide rod. My Norinco has always had a GI guide rod and has always been more accurate than the Springfield with the 1 piece guide rod. I was not able to get the Springfield assembled with the 1 piece guide rod because compensator interfears with the guide rod. I personally see no use for a 2 piece guide rod. I will not be putting the 1 piece guide rod in my Norinco as the only difference I have ever seen is the 1 piece is a bigger pain while disassembling and reassembling the gun.

 

[Esoteria]

How did your FLGR interfere with the compensator? That's kind of my main question. I'm having trouble understanding how a normal bushing can come on and off but not a bushing comp. Maybe I'm missing something.

I doubt the FLGR is doing anything significant as far as accuracy or smoothing the action or what have you, but I always preferred the look of the FLGR coming out of the front when the slide's back. The "original" just looks weird to me now.

 

[Wildfire]

Comps

There is much more to the story on Comps.
IPSC shooters would run crazy loads. 155 grain SWC and run them crazy HOT.
Heavy bullets hold back PSI a tad longer and the comp gets a chance to work.
Do not blame the comp. They work. But, they work with in their own realm.
There would be little to no effect from one with light target loads.
The reason for them was to reduce recoil in loads that were required to make what was called "Power Factor". Light target loads were cheating. Most 9MM with standard loads did not make PF. {power Factor}
.38 Supers with hot loads and comps would.
The whole idea was to keep the muzzle down for faster on target hits.
I once ran 155 s at 1250 fps in my 1911 {stock}.
The other issue you are seeing are issues with recoil springs. These were adjusted with each load we used. 22 lb springs were very common in stock guns.
We went as low as 12 lb springs and suffered the recoil effects. Shock buffs were used to lessen the damage done to the slide and frame.
The comps use don race guns in the right hands were extremely fast.So fast one would have though some were timed auto. Guess you would have had to been there.
I do not use comps because I fired street class only.

Your stock 1911s most likely have 22lb springs. Wolf Springs has any number you wish. An 18 or 20 would all of the sudden make your gun work.
Takes all of 5 minutes to change one out. If you notice the slide slamming hard, {Too hard} add a lb or 2 to the spring and you can tune your gun at any load.

 

[MikeInOr]

With my barrel mounted compensator the full length guide rod would hit the bottom of the compensator when the slide is fully retracted.

When I was looking at compensators I came across a 7 port compensator from EMR, I believe, which advertised the compensator had plenty of metal on the bottom so a groove could be cut on the underside of the compensator to clear a full length guide rod. This gave me comfort that I wasn't crazy.

My understanding of bushing comps is that the barrel goes all the way through the compensator when the slide is fully retracted so the hole in the compensator is huge to clear the barrel. Because the hole is so big the compensator actually redirects very little gas making them ineffective. Use of a full lenght guide rod with a bushing is a different question... I probably threw you off course when referring to a full length guide rod with a barrel mounted compensator.

I know that the effectiveness of a compensator is directly related to the presssure of the load. I was thinking that lighter bullets would best achieve the compensation effect. (Seems like Iread this). But it does make perfect sense that a heavier bullet will build more pressure. I have always user Winchester 230gr FMJs in my 45's. I will do more experimenting with the 230gr bullets. I have also traditionally used Bullseye which is a fast burning powder and I prefer to Bluedot. I will do some more experimenting with Bullseye and the 230's. I bought the 185gr Bary's bullets to experiment and yesterday was the first time i have ever shot them.

I am aware of major power factor vs minor power factor in IPSC shooting and that this is where compensators gained their popularity. I enjoy target shooting with friends and don't have interest in competing. I have read a lot of conflicting opinions on compensators (Heavy vs Lite bullets, fast vs slow powder etc.). I really bought the compensator to find out for myself. I enjoy working up loads and learing through expermentation.

I do have a complete set of Wolf springs for my 1911's from 15 to 22lbs I believe. I currently have 17lb springs in both my 1911's. I also have shock buffers in my 1911's just incase. There isn't much load data for the Barrys 185's with their big concave divet in the base. 10gr and 9.5gr of Bluedot are very light loads for the 185's. 9.0gr of Bluedot with the 185's is much too light of a load. I could tune the slide with a lighter spring but I don't want very light loads. Instead I will start working up in charge weight for the Barry's.

Unfortunately I forgot to bring my tablet with me to the range yesterday to record the velocities from my chronograph so I didn't bother setting up the chrono. Next time I go out I will make sure to collect velocity data with the chrono.

 

[Wildfire]

I would say you have going what is needed to figure it all out. What works in others may or may not work in yours.
Don't be afraid to change powders. Unique is called dirty by some. But it works very well and creates a very accurate round.
You seem to understand the spring thing just fine.
Video your gun when shooting it and then slow mo it.
I have done this and was amazed at what I did not know.
What I assumed was going on was not.

 

[MislMan]

I use the Wilson Combat compensator on both my wife's and my 1911. However, they are both 9mm Springfield Range Officers. There is noticeably less muzzle flip when running stee plates and it's easier on my wife's wrist. A one-piece FLGR is very difficult to impossible install due to the required insertion from the back of the slide. Many of their compensators are a firm fit and may prove difficult to compress the recoil spring from the front of the slide while attempting to press the tight-fitting compensator into slide. If you get a loose fitting comp ( as shown on their video) it probably isn't a problem. Both of ours required some fitting and are tight fitting. We install using the 2-piece FLGR as it fir into the slide and then screws together.

Larry S.

 

[Esoteria]

Thanks MislMan,

I figured installing from the back was impossible, just couldn't figure out why removing the comp like any other bushing (with FLGR still in the gun) and then disassembling would be a problem.

You sort of answered that in saying that it's just hard to get the comp actually on there.

I think what I'll do is go ahead and buy the comp, and expect that there's a 75% chance I'll need to get replacement guide rod. As long as I plan for the extra delay and cost it won't be a big disappointment if indeed I can't keep using my existing FLGR.

Thanks for the input.

 

[tonyjr]

1st , what is / does FLGR mean / stand for ?
Next , I have a compensator / flash subpressor on 2 of my 1911 45's , one on the 1911
9 mm .
With FMJ / ball reloads - not much difference on 9 mm , but quite a bit on 45's .
Seems quiter , but with ear muffs / protection hard to tell .
Easier to put back on target - not sure if the little extra weight / compensator or both .
With a laser - it seems to be easier to put and hold on target .

 

[Wildfire]

Full Length Guide rod. FLGR

 

[tonyjr]

Thanks

 

[Red Cent]

"Your stock 1911s most likely have 22lb springs."


16-18#