1911 cocked, safety off carry?

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>The safety lever can be easily pushed halfway to the on position, and it just stays there in the middle. At least on my buddy's Gold Cup. It actually tends to stick there at the halfway point when trying to set the safety on.<

Sounds like there's a problem with the safety on that one.

And:

>. If you push it down partway and let go, it springs fully back up to the fire position. <

That feature could be viewed as a liability by/for some...me included.

 

[GLOOB]

>The safety lever can be easily pushed halfway to the on position, and it just stays there in the middle. At least on my buddy's Gold Cup. It actually tends to stick there at the halfway point when trying to set the safety on.<

Sounds like there's a problem with the safety on that one.

It's brand new. I hope it just needs to be broken in. But IIRC, my Colt Officer's did the same thing. One click to get the lever off the fire detent. Then another crunchier click to get it on the safe detent. If it was spring loaded to the fire position, there would be only one click and it would remove the "no man's land" inbetween.

>. If you push it down partway and let go, it springs fully back up to the fire position. <

This seems to be a 100% great feature, IMO. I don't see any benefit to a safety that can be set partway in between safe and fire. Remember, on a slide mounted safety, your thumb doesn't ride the lever. When you flick it off, you want to be sure it's ready to fire without needing to see or feel it!

 

[1911Tuner]

I guess...but in over 45 years with 1911 pistols, I've never seen one that you could stick the safety half on and half off without workin' at it...and probably not even then, unless there was a mechanical problem.

 

[GLOOB]

Thanks. I've only shot a few. One day I'll have to take the thing apart and see what gives. My guess is the safety detent has a burr on it. It's easy to get it off fire, but very hard to get it all the way to safe without shifting your grip to get better leverage.

 

[OregonJohnny]

My dad recalls that while in Vietnam between 1966-1968, he carried his 1911 with a loaded 7-round magazine, no round chambered, hammer down, in a flap holster. Drawing and racking the slide was 1 fluid motion. Whether this was Marine Corps instruction, or his own preference, I'm not sure. Of course, an M14 or, more often, a riot shotgun loaded with flechettes were his main defensive tools, so who knows if he even ever really needed the 1911 anyway.

On the rare occasion I carry a 1911, it is loaded, chambered, cocked and locked. Most quality 1911 holsters these days have a notch to keep the safety on, so it doesn't worry me that much. I've never had the safety sweep off while it was in my leather IWB holster. Of course, I've never tumbled down a hillside or run around a competition course with it either.

 

[bigfatdave]

One day I'll have to take the thing apart and see what gives.

If you haven't had the plunger and plunger spring out, and haven't had the safety lever off ... how can you complain about the design?

It sounds like you have either an unwanted divot in your safety lever where it rides on the plunger, or crap in the works of the plunger/safety relationship.

 

[GLOOB]

I wasn't complaining about the design (originally). I was complaining about manual safeties in general. And stating my appreciation for the spring loaded safety design on Beretta DA/SA pistols.

I don't need to take a 1911 apart to know that the safety lever is not spring loaded, and that it can be left somewhere between safe and fire. I've taken apart many guns, so I know the deal. Plunger pin, spring, 2 detents in the lever: one for safe and one for fire. And if I DO need to take apart a $1000 gun to make the safety work properly, then what gives?

If it matters, I think the manual safety on a 1911 is one of the better ergonomic designs. Because the slide ensures the safety does not toggle on under recoil and your thumb rides on it, it doesn't really need to be spring loaded. It's just snicking the safety on that can potentially be ambiguous (apparently this isn't a common issue, but it wouldn't be an issue at all with a spring loaded design, maybe?). But like I said, it's only a minor annoyance. I don't suppose I'll ever be in as big a hurry to put a safety on as I might be to flick it off.

But back to the OP's question, I would much rather have a pistol without a safety than one with a safety that sometimes accidentally comes on or off in the holster (or while handling/shooting). As long as the gun is drop safe and has a reasonable trigger pull.

To show you that's not lip service, here's a pic of my FNX with manual decocker, only:
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/gloob27x/DSCF4993.jpg
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/gloob27x/DSCF4992.jpg
This isn't a bash on the 1911. I have no problem with the 1911 manual safety, and I'm interested in adding a 1911 to my collection in the near future.

 

[1911Tuner]

Dunno what's up with the pistol you described, but I can't get a safety on any of mine to hang halfway betwixt and between to save me outta torment...and I've got over 3 dozen on hand.

That pistole' needs attention...methinks.

 

[bigfatdave]

And if I DO need to take apart a $1000 gun to make the safety work properly, then what gives?

That's not right, particularly considering that my ~$400 1911 has a properly functioning safety lever with nice clean detent divots and it snaps from one to the other without any trouble.
Did the ones you had trouble with have some kind of "tactical extended operator ambi safety lever"

 

[Zerodefect]

I know a couple shooters that have ground the safety lever allmost completely off. Just a tiny little nub left.

They can still draw and sweep the safety off quickly. But the nub is so small they need to use thier support hand to turn the safety back on. It's impossible to flick it back up with just their thumb becasue the nub is ground so small.

I tried this with an old junk Kimber safety I was about to toss. It worked well. There was no way a holster would pop the safety off, and the gun felt alot thinner. You didn't have to worry about bumping the safety or riding the safety lever.

Good for people that can't use the modern ride the safety grip. Just another idea.

The grip safety and thumb safety are two key areas of the 1911 that need custom fitted to the users hand to get the best performance out of a 1911 IMO. I've seen Ed Brown Big paddle safeties cut into all kinds of shapes by advanced shooters lately.

 

[1911Tuner]

ZD...interesting. Good to know that I'm not the only one who shapes manual safeties to suit....but I don't need to as long as I've still got a small stock of the original design "GI" safety with the small pad to work with. I prefer it over the teardrop style or any of the "Batwings" that have been all the rage for the last 25 years.

This one suits me just fine. No-snag and no issues with being inadvertently wiped off...and my thumb is less likely to slip off than the teardrop style. As a bonus...it's got a flat surface over the crosspin that helps a lot in pushing the mainspring housing pin out of the frame for a no-tool detail strip.

1945 Remington Rand photo courtesy of...Me!

 

[leadcounsel]

Grip safety only carry - it is disengaged when the weapon is drawn, meaning that the weapon is only kept from firing by a trigger with a light trigger squeeze. Not sure, but I suppose it's possible for the grip safety to either be depressed by clothing/skin, or maybe even fail?

I never understood the argument for NOT using the manual safety. It provides monumental extra precaution, and takes nearly zero effort to disengage and is a natural motion.

 

[Voodoochile]

I've always carried mine unchambered with the hammer down, takes a little training but one can have the weapon ready by chambering a round as you unholster the weapon in a moment & be IMHO just as fast as one with the weapon cocked & locked yet it be a lot safer in the long run.

 

[1911Tuner]

Voodoochile. That'll work, assuming you have the option of using both hands. Up to your Crotch in Crocodiles events don't normally telephone ahead, and much of the time...if not most of the time...they start with a hand-to-hand grapple. If you don't have the option...it would be good if the rear sight is designed so as to be able to snag it on your pantleg so you can cycle the slide to chamber a round. Ramped rear sights...like the Novak Lo-Mount...need not apply.

 

[bigfatdave]

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