1911 feeding issues with topped-off mag

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They are made by the Zero Bullet Company. I think I mic'ed those bullets when you had me mic the barrel link pin and they were .4515. The picture (on the Glocktalk) thread shows .452 with a dial caliper.

I don't know if its the width of the base or the taper of the nose that is causing the problems... my guess is the shape of the nose and that it doesn't curve in soon enough, especially when compared to a Federal Hydrashok 230 gr JHP.

:confused:

Either way, no more Zero bullets for me. I'll shoot the rest of these that I've loaded up in my USPs or at least not top-off my 1911 mags... and for range use only. I had thought about carrying them in my carry gun, but I think I'll be sticking with factory Win SXT or Fed Hydrashok for now.
 
Well, I had an awesome evening at the range. :D We finally had nice weather here ~62 degrees and mostly sunny, which is very nice for the end of March in these parts.

Anyhow... just as I expected, the questionable magazines functioned fine with ball ammo - even when topping them off. In fact, neither gun ever malfunctioned when I used factory ball ammo.

My reloads were another story (of course!) I found a couple mags that actually worked every single time with my reloads, most of them didn't though - at least when topping off the magazine which is how this whole thread got started. ;)

What I noticed on this time out is that it seemed more like the troubled round was getting hung up on the slide-stop/magazine release... the part that sits just inside the frame. I discovered that when I had a hang-up, if I pushed up on the slide release, the slide would move forward and chamber the round. The stuck rounds only occurred on a full magazine after the first shot was fired. This malfunction happened with both the reloads I discussed before (230 gr JHP) and some older 200 gr flat points I had left over from a while back. It happened more on the RIA than the SA, but still happened on both.

Now at least it seems like I have a few more options... but really, I'm open to suggestions (thus this seemingly never ending thread)...
  • Only shoot ball ammo;
  • Fix/replace the slide-stop/magazine release;
  • Buy higher quality magazine springs and use only those for carrying - use all others for range work;
  • Sell both of them and buy something nice.

In all actuallity... I really do like my RIA, crappy sights and all. Heck, I can hit the staple I use to put my target up at 7 paces. The SA I feel like I should keep because it was my "first" (1911) ;)

Thoughts?
 
Yep, I got some thoughts.

Buy some decent name brand bullets and load them to a proper OAL and quit using El Cheapo bullets with funky shapes.

:D
 
Looks to me like the OAL is too long. As a general rule if the bullets don't come with specific recommendations the "line" where the cylindrical part of the bullet curves away to make the nose should barely be visible above the case mouth, maybe 0.03 " of the cylinder visible.

Reduce your loads (powder charge) by 10%, seat the bullets deeper and see what happens. Work up carefully! If they feed but don't cycle the slide or eject weakly, up the powder charge about 2-3% and try again.

Nothing wrong with zero bullets.

--wally.
 
Seating Depth

Howdy Wally...you said:

if the bullets don't come with specific recommendations the "line" where the cylindrical part of the bullet curves away to make the nose should barely be visible above the case mouth,

What you described is the bullet ogive(curve) and driving band(Full diameter)

Seating them deeper is what got him into feeding malfunctions to start with. Looks like his chamber.leade dimesnions just ain't gonna jive with the
Zero bullets. Lookin' close, it seems to me that the driving portion is a lot
longer, and the ogive shorter than on ball and truncated cone-style bullets
like the Hydra-Shok and Hornady XTP. The design would tend to force the
sides of the bullets into the rifling on a barrel with a slightly short leade area, but would probably work pkay in a worn barrel or one with different
dimensions ahead of the chamber shoulder.

Cheers!

Tuner
 
bullet ogive

Get a Stoney Point Bullet Comparator-----It is the best at measuring seating depth at the ogive.

Works with any bullet and measures at the full dia.
 
The 1911 was designed to fire a metal cased round nose bullet.

About 25 years ago I came up with a way to seat other bullets for reliable feeding.

I procured an extra RCBS seating die. I put a round of GI Ball, (the most reliable feeding ammo available) in the sheel holder and ran the ram to the top. I screwed the die down just short of crimping and locked the lock ring TIGHT with Loctite. I then screwed down the round nose seating plug until it was in firm contact with the bullet. I then locked it down with two locknuts and Loctite. I then dipped the entire top of the die into red laquer so I would never mix it up with my working one.

Whenever I'd use any other bullet, be it a H&G #68 cast or a JHP I'd load a round and insert it into the "red" die. I'd then use that round to set the correct seating stem on my working seating die.

All of my homebrewed loads suddenly started feeding much better.


Just my tuppence.
 
Oh well, some guns just don't feed some bullets.

If you want a 230 gr JHP the extra lead from the cavity has gotta go somewhere so the bullet has to be longer overall in some way.

Does his guns feed 230 gr Hydrashoks? All mine do.

If Hydrashoks feed, do like BluesBear suggests and use one as a seating depth template. I do, but I don't go so far as to have a dedicated die, I just use a factory round of a similar bullet type to set the OAL.

--wally.
 
Reviving this thread a little... Sorry for the picture quality, but this picture shows from left to right: the dummy round I loaded to 1911Tuner's OAL, a new Win 230 gr SXT, Zero 230 gr JHP bullet, my "short" reload that functioned.

SXTCompare3_640.jpg


Link to larger image
 
Is me or the picture or just my imagination? The one on the right, the short functioning reload, looks to be a Gibson Girl, that is the casing has a pronounced waist from either too much resizing or a too large bullet diameter.

Maybe it's the lighting causing it to be highlighted. While I like a tight neck to help grip the bullet I have seen pistols that didn't feed Gibson Girls, usually because the feed lips on the magazine didn't like them. Have you measured the diameter of the bullet as well as the diameter of the loaded case over the bullet.
 
either too much resizing or a too large bullet diameter.
Click to expand...
Either one wouldn't surprise me... I don't really keep track of how many times a case is loaded - I suppose I should, huh? As far as the diamter of the bullet, I mic'd one at ~.4515 ... just a hair over .451, but not quite .452.

And the lighting is not so good, I'll give you that allright. I've never measured the diameter of the case since they always fit in my case gauge.
 
The reason that the cartridge on the right has the pronounced "waist line" is because you are having to shove the bullet so deep into the case that the base of the bullet is starting to hit the thicker part of the head of the case.

If I'm not mistaken, the dummy cartridge on the left is using the same Zero bullet, but loaded at a longer OAL, and it doesn't show the "waist line".

Poorly designed bullet, IMO.
 
Has he tried running them (the loaded rounds) thru the Lee "Factory Crimp" die? Best $12.95 I ever spent on a reloading tool.

I've never seen that "wasp waist" before, although with some bullets and some brass I can sometimes see a "line" where the bottom of the bullet is in the brass. Almost always on my .380ACP reloads, not very common with my 45 loads.

Actually, if you look closely, you can see where the bottom of the bullet is in the case on the Win SXT round too, but its barely detectable, this I sometimes see in my 45 loads, I wouldn't be surprised that its common in 230 gr JHP as the bullet has to be bigger than 230 gr ball *somewhere* to put the lead that would have been in the cavity.

I don't like that prominent a "ring" around the brass near the case head. Pehaps these brass should be retired after this firing. Is his full length sizing die set right?

--wally.
 
Has he tried running them (the loaded rounds) thru the Lee "Factory Crimp" die? Best $12.95 I ever spent on a reloading tool.
Click to expand...
I don't have one of those, but I sure have heard a lot about them recently. I may have to pick one of those up.
Pehaps these brass should be retired after this firing. Is his full length sizing die set right?
Click to expand...
Perhaps... I can only assume its set up correctly because everything case gauges correctly and chambers. I can always double check though! :)
 
I have to agree with wally on the lee factory crimp die. I have an armscor(same company as RIA). My reloads wouldn't fully chamber and I would also get a slight band on the cases some times when reloading them. The lee factory crimp die solved the problem. My armscor will now feed both my 230 round nose and my 200 gr swc handloads very reliably. Your overall length does sound pretty short too. You can get the die here cheap: http://www.fmreloading.com/ Mark
 
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