1911 feeding issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cidirkona

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,180
Location
Tucson, Az
On an otherwise superb firearm, my Springfield 1911 Compact has some feeding issues where the FMJs will get stuck at the bottom of the ramp and not procede upwards. A small tap on the bottom of the magazine will continue the cycle. The magazine has about 2mm of up/down play. Only happens once out of every 3 or 4 clips of FMJ only.

Polish the ramp?
Just don't use FMJs?
New mag release?

Thanks
-Colin
 
Is the magazine fully seated? If so, you might want to check extractor tension. If the magazine doesn't seat fully, you can lighten the spring pressure from the mag release by cutting about 1 1/14 to 1 1/2 coils from the spring. No need for a new catch.

What I've seen sometimes with the shorter 1911's also, is that the recoil spring is just a tad long and the slide doesn't get the full rearward movement it needs to give you enough forward momentum and therefore the hangup.

Polishing the ramp may or may not help.
 
Yeah, the mag is all the way in. With the slide forward you can feel the bottom of the barrel pushing down on the top round of the magazine - pushing it against the lock. With the slide back it's got about 2mm of up-down play.

How do I check if the slide is moving far enough back?

Thanks!
-Colin
 
No Feed

Howdy Colin,

If I read what I think I am, you might want to check the barrel to frame
gap.

Field strip the gun and remove the barrel from the slide. Lay the barrel in the frame and install the slidestop through the link. The arm can hang
loose...No need to fully install it.

Push the barrel down and back as far as it will go. There should be a
space between the top edge of the feed ramp and the bottom edge of the
barrel throat. 1/32nd of an inch is ideal. It can be more, but not less.

If the gap isn't there, you will have to set the throat forward and reshape it. I use a smooth cut mill file to cut the bottom of the barrel, and a triangular scrape to recut the throat. Be careful to follow the original
angle of the throat, and don't extend the throat into the chamber. If
the top edge of the barrel throat is sharp, you can use the scrape to
lightly break the corner...easy does it. Just barely bevel it and polish it
up with some 600 grit wet or dry paper on your fingertip. You can get the
paper at an auto parts store in the area where they keep the auto body
materials.

If you're not comfortable doing the work, a smith shouldn't charge more than about 20 bucks for the job, since it won't take more than about 15 minutes.

Luck to ya!

Tuner
 
with the next "jam" look at the ejection port, carefully, and see where the cartridge is under the extractor. if the cartridge is not "up and centered" under the extractor, it is likely to be a slightly "too tight" extractor.
the extractor actually has quite a bit to do with correct or proper feeding of the cartridge. mcole
 
Hey Tuner, I checked that fitting during my lunch break and the bottom of the barrel's ramp lined up nearly identically with the ramp of the slide - maybe 1 or 2 hundredths of an inch between the two - with the slide off.

With the slide on and locked back, there is about 1/8" of space bewteen the two.

How am I supposed to keep the angle of the barrel throat ramp part the same if I cut back the edge 1/32nd of an inch? Wouldn't that move the entire throat back into the chamber 1/32nd of an inch as well?


____
____\ and move it to:
___
___\ (cutaway of the bottom rear portion of the barrel)

?


Should I do any adjustment to the ramp? Some of the jams look like the FMJ tip is stuck at the bottom of the frames ramp (where the mag tap hits it) - and occasionally I'll get one with the cartriage stuck half way into the chamber and the slide suck back about 3/4" (a slide wiggle unjams this one).

I caught two empty shells in the forehead as well... but I'm guessing this is from poor technique (hey, I'm still new at this). Could this also be the incorrect extractor clip allignment? Mcode: What should the round look like/not look like if in correctly/incorrectly?

Also, if I wanted to 'polish' the ramp/throat, would a felt dremel V tip be alright? Should I use any polishing compounds of any sort?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for all the help!!
-Colin
 
if, during a jam, the cartridge isn't on its centerline under the extractor. it, for one thing, means the cartridge isn't up quite far enough to go into the chamber and instead is just barely catching on the feed ramp or bottom of the barrel. i believe springfield has had some problems of this type recently. you can always send it back to them. mcole
 
What? feed problems? In a 1911? Impossible! Somebody alert Tamara! Clearly this is a fabrication by Bolsheviks! :D :p :D
 
the only two guns i've every had to send back to the mfg. for work were both of my 1911's. they both run 100% now. mcole
 
Barrel to Frame Gap

Howdy Colin,

One or two hundredths works out to be 10-20 thousandths, and
1/32nd inch is about .032 (32 thousandths) Get a .032 feeler
gauge to use for a reference. No sense in filing on the barrel if you
don't need to.

It could very well be what mcole suggested...Too much extractor tension,
or it may be a little stem bind. The next time it hangs up with the round
part-way into the chamber, extract the round, and look to see if there's a
half-moon shaped mark just below the case mouth. If it's there, you
have some stem bind. To correct it, use the tip of a pocket knife for
a scrape and lightly bevel the top of the chamber throat where the
round breaks over to horizontal as it chambers. Polish it with the
600-grit paper on your finger. Do NOT scrape the top of the ramp in
the frame.

To check the extractor tension, chamber a round at full speed, and
remove the magazine. If you're using a live round, be careful...
Slowly extract the round by hand just far enough to clear the chamber, but don't let it touch the ejector. The round should just sag but not fall off
the breechface. Shake the pistol up and down a few times....The round should stay put. If the round doesn't sag at all, the extractor is a little
too tight. Adjust it by un-bending it just a little. It won't take much,
and will probably be a trial and error thing until you find the sweet spot.

I've got a couple of other things to suggest if all these things check out okay...These things are usually somethin' simple.

Standin' by.

Tuner
 
I do beleive I've seen that half moon before - but I will check again tonight. I took pictures (which are too large to post) of what the jams looked like, feel free to mail me if you'd like to see them. I'll check on both of these issues again when I get home.

Thanks again!
-Colin
 
Stem Bind

Howdy Colin.
Sometimes stem bind is a snap, and sometimes it's a couple of things, one of which could be the
barrel to frame gap. The gap should be the same, slide off or
on, with the barrel pushed down and back against the impact surface unless you have a short link in the gun. To check for that, remove just the slidestop, and reinstall it with the pin
through the link and frame, but leave the arm hanging vertical.
Push the barrel down and back firmly. The arm should swing
freely, and no more than just minimal resistance

I'll send you an E-mail so you can send the pictures.
 
Last edited:
FWIW!

My Semi-custom Officer's ACP does the same thing with the two original factory magazines. Two new Wilson's fixed this problem for me.

It is my "novice" opinion that the Colt mags are releasing the cartridge inconsistently. A little early in some cases, allowing the bullets nose to dive into the feedramp sufficiently to hang up occasionaly.

I have also experienced this type?? of failure in other 1911's.
A new recoil usually remedied it.
 
Wilson Magazines

Howdy guys,

I know that Wilson or (name your brand) magazines often straighten out a feeding problem, but if the pistol is set up right, it should feed with any good magazine, assuming that the ammo is in spec. For every man who swears by Wilson 47Ds, there's one who swears AT'em. I've also seen
pistols that choked on 47Ds and Powermags, but would run like an oiled
sewing machine on surplus GI "hardball" mags. I've had 47Ds actually BE the problem instead of the cure. Not often, but often enough to know that
they aren't a magic wand.

Most of the time, a magazine related feeding issue is on the last round
or the top round when doing a reload from slidelock, and these are usually because of a weak spring. An incorrect follower angle can also be a cause
of a top-round failure, and when a magazine releases a round too early, it usually gets ahead of the extractor, resulting in a stoppage or it forces the
extractor to snap over the rim. As we all know, this will cause an extractor to lose tension prematurely or break.

This one sounds like a barrel throat/feed ramp issue, and the failure to return to battery sounds like stem bind or an over-tensioned extractor.
Just trying to eliminate a few things by eyeballing the potential problem
areas first.

Hope we can get him up and runnin' double quick. It's usually somethin' simple with these things.

Cheers!
Tuner
 
Should the round be able to be loaded if the slide is released slowly, as in glocks and several other chamber-ducking pistols? I can recreate highspeed firing jams by slowly releasing the slide (that's how I took those pictures in my living room).

Due to the half moon cases, I'll try taking down the top of the throat just a hair to see if that helps when I get home tonight, but I'm still not completely sure how the extractor is supposed to look on the round, or if it's too loose/tight/whatever.

Thanks again,
-Colin
 
Recreate the Jams

Howdy Colin,

The pistol should make the stem-bind mark even if it goes to battery,
it just won't be as pronounced. t may look like a heavy scrape.
If you can recreate the stoppages by riding the slide, taking a picture
and sending it to me would be helpful. Most untweaked 1911s will
stop when feeding in slow-mo like that anyway.

Here's a cut and paste of the extractor instructions from another post.

To check the extractor tension, chamber a round at full speed, and
remove the magazine. If you're using a live round, be careful...
Slowly extract the round by hand just far enough to clear the chamber, but don't let it touch the ejector. The round should just sag but not fall off
the breechface. Shake the pistol up and down a few times....The round should stay put. If the round doesn't sag at all, the extractor is a little
too tight. Adjust it by un-bending it just a little. It won't take much,
and will probably be a trial and error thing until you find the sweet spot.

Check to see if your extractor is the problem by removing it and trying to
recreate the jams by hand-cycling slowly. If it doesn't choke, it's the
extractor. If it does, there's another problem working.

Check the breech face for roughness. Polish it lightly with 600-grit paper
on a trimmed popsicle stick. Don't try to make it shiny...just knock the sharp edges off any tool marks. Check the empty brass in the extractor groove. If you see tiny dings, the hook is digging into the case as it climbs the ramp and tries to break over to horizontal. The hook may be a few thousandths too long. If you have a caliper, remove the extractor and check the width of the breechface across the parallel area at the bottom.
It should be between .484 and .490 wide. If it's too narrow, open it up
equally on both sides with a square swiss file with a protected edge.
I usually bevel the leading edges just slightly too. Lightly...just break the corners.

Sometimes it's a matter of optimizing clearances that may be at the low end
of tolerance. Understand too, that the compact pistols can be a little persnickety to fine-tune due to the slide mass, heavier recoil spring
load, reduced slide travel, and higher slide speeds make the timing "window" more critical. Most of those require a little less extractor tension than their bigger cousins.

Standin' by...
Tuner
 
Tuner, I emailed you some pictures, but I don't know if they'll be any help. I'll try that extractor test when I get home as well tonight - although I don't have a caliper to measure those tiny clearances. I'll let ya know what happens. Stayed "tuned." :D

-Colin
 
Pictures

Okay Colin,

From the look of things, you have insufficient barrel to frame gap. The
second picture looks like you don't have the barrel pushed down and back against the frame. The gap needs to be there with the barrel down and
back as far as it will go. I'm assuming that the slidestop pin is through the link on the first picture.

The stoppage picture suggests stem bind. As near as I can see, the extractor hook isn't too long, but may have a little too much tension,
or the bottom corner of the extractor isn't beveled to let the case rim
get under it easily.

Bevel and polish the top of the barrel throat a little, and remove the
extractor. Orient it as it would be in the gun, and slip a round up into the hook. The bottom corner where the rim makes first contact should be
beveled a little to allow the rim to cam the hook open easily. If it doesn't
have the bevel, relieve it a little with a square needle file, and use a medium stone to radius the bottom corner of the hook itself. As the
round tries to break over to horizontal, sometimes that corner will make
contact and slow things down. You need all the help you can get with
that short, light slide. No need to get carried away...Usually just a light
radius there is all you need.

To get the proper gab at the feed ramp, you'll need to use a smooth mill file to undercut the barrel forward just a little, and reshape the throat
with a scrape. A good pocketknife can be used to scrape it. Just follow
the existing angle of the throat, and blend it in with as little material off
the top of the throat as possible. You'll probably have to redo the bevel
at the top after this, but you may not. Test it first, and go slow. Take a
cut with the file and lay the barrel back in the frame to check the gap. It
won't take much.

Check your PMs.

Standin' by...

Tuner
 
Ok, I took off the tiny lip of the top of the throat with some 600 grit sand paper wrapped around a plastic clicker-eraser and worked it until it was a smooth edge rather than a hard straight edge. I don't know if I took off enough, but rather too little than too much for now.

After cycling the gun by hand for a little while for a few magazines, I had one jam where it wouldn't go over horizontal, and it looked like the rim wasn't going completely up into the extractor. I'm not sure if it WAS the extractors fault, but I'll check that one out tonight and maybe give it a little bevelage... bevelification... bevelorama..... nevermind. I've had too much cough syrup.

Is my barrel supposed to have foreward/backward play when the slide is back?

Kinda curious - why does there need to be a gap there? Wouldn't it make more sense if it were smooth between the two?

Thanks again!
-Colin
 
Play

Colin asked:

Is my barrel supposed to have foreward/backward play when the slide is back?
-------------------------------------------------------
Yep. The barrel should be loose and free-moving when it's linked down.


Kinda curious - why does there need to be a gap there? Wouldn't it make more sense if it were smooth between the two?
--------------------------------------------------------

To keep the nose of the feeding round from hitting the bottom edge of the throat. When the feeding round hits the barrel throat, it pushes it forward
slightly, and the forward motion causes the barrel to start linkup immediately. If the barrel is in-spec and correctly fitted, the lower lug
rides up the slidestop pin. Look at the lug, link and pin relationship to see it...OR...if the link is too long or the forward radius of the lug is out of spec,
the link will cause the barrel to pivot upward toward lockup. Also known
as "Riding the Link". If the bottom of the throat isn't forward of the ramp
in the frame, the sharp edge of the throat catches the bullet nose and
causes a stoppage.

To see how the barrel reacts to the incoming round, lock the slide, insert a loaded magazine, put the muzzle against a table to keep it from moving, and ease the slide forward. The feeding will be smoother because the barrel isn't trying to link up while the cartridge is trying to break over. It may stop just short of full battery. If it does, just let off the pressure against the table, and the slide should snap into battery.

If the jam that you induced was on the last round, it may be the dimple
in the magazine follower snagging the rim. The dimple is important...Don't remove it. The last round feeds at a slightly different angle than the others, and is the most likely place to have a feed-related stoppage
if your extractor tension is too high or you have some stem bind.


To determine if the stoppage is extractor related, remove it and hand-cycle the pistol. If it feeds smoothly, your extractor has too much tension. If
it still jams, you have other issues...likely stem bind or related to the throat
to feed ramp gap.

Process of elimation. Tricky sometimes, and trickier still if the gun is
one of the chopped versions.

Standin' by...
Tuner
 
Extractor Removal

Push in on the firing pin to clear the firing pin stop. The stop will
probably fall out easily...Most factory stops aren't press-fitted.
Keep your thumb over the end of the slide to stop the firing pin and spring
from taking off to parts unknown. Remove the pin and spring. Use a
small screwdriver in the slot where the pin stop goes to gently lever the
extractor out the back of the slide. You may want to use a piece of
cloth under the screwdriver to protect the silde finish.

To reinstall it, slide the extractor in...it should be a press fit. Use the
pin stop to line it up. Put the firing pin and spring in, and push the pin in far enough to get the stop in place. When the stop goes home, the firing pin will pop into place. While you've got it all apart, clean the extractor channel and the extractor. Gunk in the channel can keep the extractor
from camming open to let the rim under it. Come to think of it, that well
may be the cause of your problems. I use a worn .22 rimfire pistol brush
for the extractor channel. Some carb cleaner will help a lot. Gunk
Carb medic is my choice.

The firing pin spring goes on one way. If it falls off, it's on backward.


Standin' by...
Tuner
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TomJ
Shield Plus Feed Issue
Replies
15
Views
1K
Col. Harrumph
Col. Harrumph
GooseGestapo
  • Locked
Tisas 9mm 1911 feeding issues.
2
Replies
38
Views
3K
GooseGestapo
GooseGestapo
C
  • Locked
1911 feeding problem
Replies
18
Views
668
unrealtrip
U
briang2ad
  • Locked
Disturbing news on my 1911
Replies
18
Views
2K
JHG
J
H
  • Locked
Making a pistol as reliable as it can be
2
Replies
49
Views
2K
Hunter2011
H
Back
Top