1911 feeding issues

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GOOD NEWS!!

After 100 rounds through the .45 (and 150 through the .380... hehehe), I only had 5 jams... haha that sounds bad, but it's good to me because - two were fail-two-extract and three were ride-over-feed where the end of the bullet would stick into the top of the chamber almost straight up - and all three of those were last-round jams! I've never ever had those fail-to-extract jams before, but I have a feeling it's only a small bump in the road and I'm almost there anyways.

It seems as if my dimpleless magazine cured the not-going-horizontal jams, but I still think I need some more new magazines with stronger springs AND a dimple. I think I'll have to put my extractor just a little bit tighter again. The only time there were fail-to-extracts when my friend who was new to firearms was shooting it, so there might have been some limp wristing or failing to load the magazines all the way to the back...? I wasn't there when he loaded it so I'm not sure on this one - either way I'll tighten up the extractor a bit or just buy a better one.

The half-as-expensive FireStorm didn't have a single problem other than shooting out strings of winclean faster than I could pay for them!! hahah That little thing is fun, I recomend them highly.

-Colin
 
Fail to Extract

Howdy Colin,

You said:

The only time there were fail-to-extracts when my friend who was new to firearms was shooting it, so there might have been some limp wristing or failing to load the magazines all the way to the back...?

Was it a failure to extract or failure to eject? The two are different,
though the extractor tension can be a contributor if the last round
doesn't clear the port, but gets knocked loose from the extractor.

Failure to extract leaves the case in the chamber, though technically
it's a failure to extract if the case gets out of the chamber and falls off
the extractor before it hits the ejector. Not enough extractor tension can
also be a factor in a failure to eject. A failure to extract or eject on the
last round points to the extractor tension as often as not.

Limp-wristing is a possibility, as the shorter pistols are more sensitive
to grip due mainly to the heavy recoil spring. Get a firm grip and see if it
repeats the malfunction.

The Rideover feed on the last round is a magazine timing problem, and the
spring is most likely the fly in the ointment. Limp-wristing can also cause it
if the slide doesn't get far enough to strip the round from the back, and
catches it in the cartridge's extractor groove instead.

Try that spring that I sent you...the one with the red mark on it. It's just
a little lighter than the ISMI, and may bring things into line.

As far as seating the rounds to the back of the magazine, that helps to
get the top round to strip and feed on a reload, but during live-fire,
the recoil will move them to and fro anyway...and the feeding stroke of
the slide will move the top round in the magazine forward...and then
backward again as it moves rearward after the shot. No need to worry overmuch about getting the rounds seated to the rear, 'cause they ain't
gonna stay there for long when you start shootin'.

You're almost there...

Tuner
 
They were failures to extract. I had to remove the magazine, make sure the round was fired and tap it out of the chamber with a pen through the muzzle...

None of these problems occured while I was shooting, only my friends who were new to pistols... Either way, it's loading ALOT nicer with the enw 6 rd shortie magazine.

-Colin
 
Extraction No-Go

They were failures to extract.

Okay. Either the extractor needs more tension or the hook is worn.

I added some to the last reply...I forgot to respond to the question on
seating the rounds to the back of the mag.
 
Is there anyway to drill, tap and lock-tite a screw into the top of the follower to act as a dimple? Maybe one of those little tiny hex plugs?

What mags should I get that are officers/compact size, good strength spring, a follower with guides on the front and back, and a dimple - or is that too much to ask?

-Colin
 
Screw on Dimple

Is there anyway to drill, tap and lock-tite a screw into the top of the follower to act as a dimple? Maybe one of those little tiny hex plugs?

Nope. The location, size and shape of the dimple is fairly precise.
--------------------------------------------

What mags should I get that are officers/compact size, good strength spring, a follower with guides on the front and back, and a dimple - or is that too much to ask?

Metalform Company. Ask about the Wolff spring upgrade. A fast magazine is necessary to keep up with the fast-moving slide. Big discount for a 50 magazine order. Get some friends together for a group buy. They can mix and match.

Metalform supplies most of the magazines for Springfield and Kimber, and about half of Colt's and Chip McCormick's. Powermags are basically Shooting Stars with the Wolff spring and a bumper pad The Metalform bases are pre-drilled for the pads if you want to add them later.

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Followers

Their 6-round Officer's Model/Defender class 6-round magazines have
flat followers with the dimple. Round followers are available on GM class
7-round magazines only, at least as far as I know.

The magazines that fit flush in your gun that are listed as 8-round have
a follower that has been shortened, along with the spring to make room
for the extra round. Stick with the 6-round mags for that size pistol.

Call them and talk to Ginny...(option 4 on the recorded menu) She knows
her stuff and will have your magazines out the door next day. If she isn't
available, ask for Derek.

Cheer-O!

Tuner
 
Cool, thanks man. I can't thank you enough for all your help.

That inside part of that link rides the little bracket out of the bottom of the barrel - is that where it's supposed to go? I'll take pics tonight.

-Colin
 
Bracket

Mighty welcome Colin. Glad to help.

Wasn't sure what you meant for a minute...The bracket is the lower lug,
The slidestop pin bears upward on the lug to lock the barrel vertically.
The link causes the barrel to unlock when the pistol fires and the slide
starts moving backward. The slidestop pin goes through the hole in the
link, and serves as an anchor and pivot for the link to swing around, so
that when the barrel moves rearward with the slide, it will pull against the
link and change directions from sraight backward to downward into linkdown.

The barrel isn't supposed to bear on the link at any point as it moves upward into battery. The lower lug's shape should do that, acting as
a camming angle to force the barrel upward and into lockup. If the
slidestop pin bears on the link at any point, it's known as "Riding the Link.
many production pistols do that, and though it's not right, doesn't seem to
do any harm in the short term. After long term use, it can wear the link,
or cause the pin that holds the link to the barrel lug to "egg-shape" and
delay linkdown timing somewhat.

When the hole in the link is roughly centered with the front curve of that lower lug, the backside of the hole...the radius...should be flush with that
curve...Otherwise, the barrel rides the link into battery. Also, when the link
is vertical...in the In-battery position...the radius of the hole should be
flush, or ideally, slightly below flush with the rear curve and the bottom
of the lug. If it's ABOVE flush, the link is locking the barrel vertically,
and that's not correct, either. Properly fitted, the link sould not be in
any bind with the barrel locked into battery. It should be free and loose.

If the barrel is riding the link when the link is swung forward into linkdown
position, a slightly shorter link can usually be used as long as the slidestop pin will go "around the corner" freely on its way to battery.

Using a shorter link does three things. It unlocks the barrel from the slide
earlier. It reduces or eliminates riding the link....and it can help smooth
the feeding by reducing the height of the barrel in relation to the forward
movement of the barrel when the bullet nose hits it.

Note that, properly fitted....when the slidestop pin is through the hole
in the link, the pin should make LIGHT contact with the front of the barrel
lug as it goes around the corner. Heavy rubbing will wear the front of the
lug prematurely, so the link needs to bear a little of the load..but not much
of it...and it should bear NONE of the loading of vertical lockup.

Swapping out links willy-nilly can get you into trouble if you don't know
everything to check before firing the gun, but most production pistols that
I've run into in the past 10 years or so can work well with a link that is
.003 inch shorter than standard, and smooths out the horizontal breakover
when the round heads for the chamber. Standard center to center length
is .278 inch, but links come in over and undersizes to allow fine tuning.

Be aware that even if the barrel rides the link a little, swapping out to a shorter link does affect linkdown timing. If the barrel unlocks too early due to a link change, it can cause other problems that are related to chamber
pressure being too high to unlock the breech safely. There's a fine line
between just right and dead wrong sometimes. Understand it completely
before diving in.

Standin' by...
Tuner
 
Damn - so how long have you been working on 1911s?

I don't think that might is out of spec... but I wouldn't know for sure. When it looked at it last it seemed to follow the edge of the lug -- how closely I don't remember. I don't think mine's a problem though. All I need now are some new mags and to retighten my extractor a little.

I have regained my faith in this little guy... now if only it weighed as little as my firestorm... hehehe I'm going to start drilling holes in the slide for weight reduction... j/k

-Colin
 
Holy Damn! That's 18 years longer than I've been alive!

Do you know where I can download one of those assembly pictures for Mr. Springfield -- the ones that show where all the different parts go? I know the parts inside the slide, but I'm still somewhat nervous about taking apart anything in the frame.

Oh - and another thing I noticed yesterday is that the new magazine doens't wiggle around like my other two do. I think I may have to get myself two of those really nice mags for Christmas. Do you know anything about the mags at www.fourfourmag.com? They seem to have fairly decent prices -- especially on the mags for my firestorm.

-Colin
 
Older than Dirt

Colin said:

That's 18 years longer than I've been alive!

Now, don't go makin' me feel old. I'm havin' a hard enough
time believin' it myself.:D

I don't know anything about the magazines that you mentioned. Best advice that I can give you is don't cheap out on the magazines. I can't remember how many 1911s that I've "fixed" by simply handing the owner a good magazine and telling him to go try it again.

Good magazines. Buy the best that you can afford, even if it means buying
fewer of them.

A good extractor, properly tensioned goes a long way to insuring reliability.
Your factory extractor was supplied by the lowest bidder.

Good ammunition. Stick with quality ammo. That doesn't mean the expensive semi-exotics. Sellier & Bellot or PMC Hardball offers very good
ammunition at early 1990's prices. I don't care much for the 185-grain
super screamers. 200-230 grain bullets loaded to standard pressures
are your best bet.

Maintain the pistol and keep it clean. Detail stripping a 1911 without the
firing pin safety parts is a snap and can be done in a half-hour including
making everything sparkling clean, and the reassembly. Quicker than that
after you've done it a few times. If you're unsure about it, have somebody
show you. Most guys who do their own detail stripping are too happy to
walk you through it. Colt Series 80's are just a bit more complex, but not
by much... Series 2 Kimbers are a little more tedious, I understand. I
haven't had the opportunity to open one up yet, but I understand that the
rear sight has to come off in order to do it.

Standin' by...
Tuner
 
Tuner - thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and your patience in helping work this out. I may have some questions for you of my own.

-sven, wondering when Tuner will start charging us all
 
Good Thread

Thank yewwwww...

Sven...Not a dime. I love the pistols and I like helpin' the guys who love'em too. Love of the breed, and the fact that bein' retired it keeps
me busy and outta trouble.;)


Book? Naww...Somebody might wanna take my picture, and I just HATE that.:D
 
64 more rounds this weekend, one fail to extract - it looked like the extractor pulled almost straight through the casing - the RO said that it was bad brass though... brand new PMC though... <shrug>

NO other jams though, only that one FTEx.

-Colin
 
FTE

Colin Said:

64 more rounds this weekend, one fail to extract - it looked like the extractor pulled almost straight through the casing - the RO said that it was bad brass though... brand new PMC though... <shrug>

Hmmmm...That's odd. Sounds like maybe the barrel is coming out of
vertical lock too early with the chamber pressure still high. The case still has a firm grip on the chamber wall, and the extractor has to rip it out
instead of helping it out. Not good. Look at your other brass to see if
there's a heavy gouge on the inside of any of the rims. Clean the chamber
and see if there are any signs of heavy pitting or roughness, tool marks,
etc.

Try this test for me:

Remove the recoil spring and plug. Slowly move the slide out of battery and watch the barrel. It should just start to link down when the slide has moved about 1/10th of an inch. If it begins to fall too early, it can cause
what you've described. You may have to do it a few times to see the exact point of barrel linkdown in relation to the slide movement. Be sure to return it to battery briskly for each try, or you'll get a false indication.

If it's just barely too soon, you can delay slide movement and linkdown for a split second longer by using an EGW square-bottomed firing pin stop, but that may require going down a step on the recoil spring load to get good function. There's a chance that the bottom of the lower barrel lug is out
of spec, and has too much of an angle on it. The slidestop pin isn't supporting it for a long enough period, and causing the barrel to start
linking down too soon. If all else is okay, it's not a complicated fix, but not
one to tackle with a rat-tail file.

Some of the little pistols can be a real pill to get fine-tuned. I'd still like
to have a look at the top end. Easier to diagnose it if I can see it.

NO other jams though, only that one FTEx.

Excellent! Problem 1 solved...Now for that FTE...

Standin' by,
Tuner
 
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