1911 feeding question...

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Lone_Gunman

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I have a 1911 that has a problem. If I start with the gun clean, I can usually shoot 50 rounds or so without a hitch. After that, I start having rounds not go all the way into the chamber. The slides stops before it fully closes. The round usually feeds about 3/4 of the way in. I can tap the back of the slide and it will close and fire no problems. I am having no other problems with the gun.

What is the diagnosis?
 
What is the diagnosis?
Click to expand...

You need to clean it? :neener:

How new is the gun? Some guns just don't like to run dirty especially if they are new and tight. I have a little Para C-645 that does the same thing after about 50 rounds.
 
Not enough information to give a definitive answer but a few things come to mind.

Is your chamber a match (tight) one? If shooting reloads, are they properly taper crimped? Are your loads dirty and foul the chamber? Is your pistol new and very tight? Is your recoil spring weak? Does your lube wear away too quickly? Are there burrs on a contact surface or are they polished adequately?

There may be tightness in the barrel lug/slide lock up or a too long barrel link or a too tight barrel bushing that binds when the barrel heats up and expands.

Lots of possible answers as you can see.
 
It is a standard chamber. Nothing special about this one.

I am shooting reloads mainly, which work fine in all my other 1911s. I also shot some Black Hills ammo, which had the same problem as my reloads.

After 50 rounds, there is some fouling of the chamber. Just like in every other 1911 I have ever fired.

Pistol is new. About 250 rounds through it total.

Recoil spring is new. How do you tell if its weak???
 
If it is a new gun:

1) what gun is it?
2) Have you detail stripped it and lubed it?

You may just have some very dirty reloads that are fouling the chamber. This can happen even with good powder if in low loadings. What powder/primer/powder weight/bullet?

The more detailed the information you give, the better the answers can be.
 
The simplest and most common problem is the magazines. What brand of magazines do you have?

You also have provided little information on the gun. Is it a GM, Commander? New gun or used (you did say "new", but new to you or new? You mention you have had problems with your own reloads but also with Black Hills. Is the latter the remanufactured or the new? Have you tried any new factory ammo?

tipoc
 
Read the Brownells catalog, there is a fascinating side bar article in the 1911 spring section. The side bar is about "Spring Set".

Replace the recoil spring with a high quality ISMI or Wolf to start with. About $10.00.
 
It is a S&W 5" 1911.

Yes I lubed it, but have not detail stripped it.

It was doing this with Black Hills 230g FMJ ammo also. I don't think the reloads are a problem since they work OK in my other 1911s.

The magazines are Wilson mags that work fine in other 1911s.

Replace the recoil spring with a high quality ISMI or Wolf to start with. About $10.00.
Click to expand...

What weight spring?
 
I wouldn't start replacing things just yet. Try something first. Pick up a box or two of Winchester, or Federal American Eagle 230 gr. ball. Run this through the gun. If the problem begins to crop up try having someone else shoot the gun.

Field strip the gun and look for any unusual signs of wear. A burr that's been kicked up, for example.

Awhile back I had a S&W 1911. The gun shot and operated very well. However it did so only after I had deburred the internals some. That is removed several sharp edgesfrom the feedramp and linkage.

Below is a link to Wolff Gunsprings. Factory standard for standard 230 gr. ball is 16 pds. If you have to try replacing the spring get a 16 pd. one and an 18 pd one. Try the 16 first. S&W could have installed a weak spring. You can pick up springs at any gunstore. Wolff is about the best.

http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html

Look at the internals. Try the Win. or Fed. ball first.

tipoc
 
I wouldn't start replacing things just yet. Try something first. Pick up a box or two of Winchester, or Federal American Eagle 230 gr. ball. Run this through the gun. If the problem begins to crop up try having someone else shoot the gun
Click to expand...

I am not sure what that will accomplish, other than waste ammo and someone elses time. I will take a good look at the interals and see what that looks like though.
 
The magazines are Wilson mags that work fine in other 1911s.
Click to expand...

But does it do it with the factory mag?

If it were mine, I would:

1) Detail strip it, clean it and lube it properly.
2) Test it with three types of ammo and the factory mag.

I am not sure what that will accomplish, other than waste ammo and someone elses time.
Click to expand...

It will eliminate ammo as a cause, but it will still leave the magazines suspect. The thing to keep in mind is 99% of all 1911 FTF problems are magazine related, not the gun.

If I still had a problem, 1-800-331-0852 will take care of it now with no questions asked and no cost to you. This is one of the many reasons to deal with S&W - excellent warranty and customer service.

Because it is malfunctioning with Wilson mags does not mean there is a problem with the gun. Try it with the factory mags. Wilsons are very good, but they don't run 100% in all guns all the time.
 
Sorry, I neglected to mention, I had also used the S&W factory mags as well as Chip McCormick mags. It did it with them all.

As far as the ammo issue, I used Black Hills also, which is going to be better ammo than Winchester white box or Federal.
 
I used Black Hills also, which is going to be better ammo than Winchester white box or Federal.
Click to expand...

I think it's going to be about the same quality in regards to feeding - the machinery they make them on is pretty similar, and that's what determines "quality" when it comes to feeding.

OK, if it's ammo and mag independent, then that still leaves detail stripping it and looking for foreign matter, crud, or burrs. Then lube and try it. Be sure to grease the rails - I have seen this happen with new guns when they are just still too dry - which is how most factories ship them. I had this exact problem years and years ago when I got my first "new" 1911.
 
Sorry to hear it's a S&W. I have a beloved 645 that is incredible. The 1911 design is a bit problematic with all sorts of manufacturers. All too often the things need work after one buys one, yet their popularity continues. I've seen a lot of Kimbers that require a lot of shooting to get them shot in, then sometimes they need even additional work. It wouldn't be so bad except they're expensive to start out with -- all of the 1911s. You can get the 645 for a fraction of the price and I've always wondered why that was.

If you get it working without a trip to the gunsmith, please post here what you did to it. Many modern pistols shoot thousands and thousands of rounds without spring problems. Why the 1911 should be any different beats me.
 
are you sure you are not limp wristing? pretty common after firing 50 rounds... semi-autos need a firm grip to cycle properly... might be compounded by being a new gun
might try a heavier recoil spring
 
I'll toss in my 2-cents' worth...

Before I ever fire a full-size 1911 I replace the recoil spring with a Wolff 18 1/2 pound variable power spring. I've found this to be the best general purpose recoil spring I've run into. It works with light target loads and high powered +Ps as well.

I'd also get a three-pack of Wolff +10 percent mag springs just in case. Normally, replacing the mag springs and the recoil spring will fix about 95 percent of FTF and FTE issues.

I'd check for burrs, as others have mentioned, but I'd also check the extractor and the breech face. Some pistols will build up dirt on the breech face pretty quickly. If you have a tight fit on the extractor you may have excess friction between the breech face, cartridge face and extractor when the gun starts to get dirty.

Usually, the new recoil spring is enough to overcome this minor friction, but it is possible that this is a cause of an issue. I had such an issue with a CZ97. I just put in a stronger recoil spring and it hasn't been a problem since.

I would start with the springs. I do the mag and recoil springs on every auto loader I buy, new or used. I actually keep them on hand for the 1911 and CZ and TZ 97 so if I happen to buy another one I can just go right home and change out the springs. It won't hurt you a bit to have a couple spare springs on hand in case you need one in a hurry somewhere down the line anyway.
 
Greetings,

I got the same problem with my SIG Revolution with factory ammo and my reloads.... and I solved the problem.

Get the barell out and drop your rounds int he chamber. The bottom of the round must not exceed. If it does, you will encounter problems.

I can't talk much about factory ammo, but with my reloads, I had to shorten the OAL and because I am using a Dillon crimp die (I am waiting for my Lee FCD die), I make sure to run each round in a case gauge.

Thank you
 
OK so you've put 250 rds. through it and about every 50 or so it begins to act up. Which specifically is a failure to go into battery (you haven't mentioned any other problems.)

If we eliminate magazines as a problem, and we eliminate shooter error, and we eliminate ammo (assuming we've eliminated all those) next up is the recoil spring and the possibility of a slightly tight chamber.

The problem you describe is interesting. For 48 or so out of 50 rounds the gun runs well. Then it has a failure to go into battery. You clean it some and it continues to run well till about 47-50 rounds later it fails to go into battery again. From what you've written it sounds like that is about right.

Could be S&W put in a weak spring. Though it seems to be fine for 48 out of 50 rounds. But if the chamber gets a bit dirty, and it has been reamed on the low side of it's tolerences, it could require a bit more power to properly chamber a round. 50 rounds does not get a gun particularly dirty. But if the chamber is a bit tight, and the spring a bit weak, well it could cause what you are describing.

Point is, eliminate each problem one at a time starting with the common.

S&W does have good repair and return.

tipoc
 
I'd do this first. Once it starts to happen, lube it again. It may be that your gun is just very tight, and once it gets fouled, and the lube wears off a little, then you have trouble going back into battery. Keep it wet and see if that solves the problem. If so, after 500 to 1,000 rounds you should be good. It may just need to be fully broken in.
 
Well with it being a S&W with an external extractor, I believe you'd be money ahead just to send it to S&W and let them fix it on their dime...

It could be a slightly too tight chamber or the extractor not just right or _______, or _______...etc. Ammo cost too much to try different things when it should have been right from the get go and when S&W will pay for shipping both ways. I've not used S&Ws customer service but most say it's great...so use it and save your ammo! Most likely when you get it back it'll be good to go after their extra attention to detail is put on it....you've nothing to loose and everything to gain...;)
 
Kit guns?

#15
Confederate
Senior Member

Sorry to hear it's a S&W. I have a beloved 645 that is incredible. The 1911 design is a bit problematic with all sorts of manufacturers. All too often the things need work after one buys one, yet their popularity continues. I've seen a lot of Kimbers that require a lot of shooting to get them shot in, then sometimes they need even additional work. It wouldn't be so bad except they're expensive to start out with -- all of the 1911s. You can get the 645 for a fraction of the price and I've always wondered why that was.

If you get it working without a trip to the gunsmith, please post here what you did to it. Many modern pistols shoot thousands and thousands of rounds without spring problems. Why the 1911 should be any different beats me.
Click to expand...

That's what I keep wondering! Why, in this modern day is it acceptable - even expected - that a certain product will often NOT function reliably unless the buyer goes through a ritual of breaking in, troubleshooting and "tuning" to get the bloody thing to work??!!:confused:
If the only lower priced models exhibited these traits as an acceptable tradeoff allowing DIY gun guy to save a few bucks by doing the finishing work himself and the higher priced offerings delivered "tuned" flawless shooters out of the box, I would understand. But apparently - they are all fussy and finicky devices making buying one a roll of the dice - regardless of what you buy and how much you pay, it is possible or likely that some level of post-purchase gunsmithing (deburring, new springs, tuned mags, etc, etc.....) may be required to make it functional. WHY IS THIS OK???

#16
loop

I'll toss in my 2-cents' worth...

Before I ever fire a full-size 1911 I replace the recoil spring with a Wolff 18 1/2 pound variable power spring. I've found this to be the best general purpose recoil spring I've run into. It works with light target loads and high powered +Ps as well.

I'd also get a three-pack of Wolff +10 percent mag springs just in case. Normally, replacing the mag springs and the recoil spring will fix about 95 percent of FTF and FTE issues.

I'd check for burrs, as others have mentioned, but I'd also check the extractor and the breech face. Some pistols will build up dirt on the breech face pretty quickly. If you have a tight fit on the extractor you may have excess friction between the breech face, cartridge face and extractor when the gun starts to get dirty.

Usually, the new recoil spring is enough to overcome this minor friction, but it is possible that this is a cause of an issue. I had such an issue with a CZ97. I just put in a stronger recoil spring and it hasn't been a problem since.

I would start with the springs. I do the mag and recoil springs on every auto loader I buy, new or used. I actually keep them on hand for the 1911 and CZ and TZ 97 so if I happen to buy another one I can just go right home and change out the springs. It won't hurt you a bit to have a couple spare springs on hand in case you need one in a hurry somewhere down the line anyway.
Click to expand...

If that is what is needed to make it work well, why don't the manufacturers just do it before they sell the flippin' guns?? Are 1911's the kit cars of the gun world? (here's a body, chassis and some parts - you do the rest).
 
I'm voting for the concentration of errors caused by this being a gun board.

I have a 1911 that it's only failure of any sort was due to a magazine with too tight of feed lips. Beyond that, it's been 100%. I have 4 or 5 friends with 1911's that don't have any issues at all.

People come on forums to gripe about this or that, and seeing as how the 1911 is the single most popular platform today, it makes sense you'd hear more than it's share of complaints.

Add to that that it's also the most widely supported platform in the aftermarket and you get a lot of second rate aftermarket components out there, adding to the headache.

Now, I do agree with you that it is rather obscene that something costing as much as a Kimber might still need work done to it after shipping, but that's a probelm with the producer- not the design.
 
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