How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints

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Shady-tree mechanic type gunsmiths ruin more 1911's than probably any other type of pistol.

Yep. And they do it like this:

polishing up the feedramp and throat

Whenever somebody calls me to ask for help with a misfeeding 1911-pattern pistol...and the first thing they tell me is that they did a "Ramp and Throat Job" on it...I go

:banghead: :banghead:
 
"Guys...

How do you explain an unaltered USGI pistol that's unpolished, yet will feed anything, including hand-fed empty cases?"


"You guys are a bunch of party-poopers...

You should know better they to go around telling folks that polishing this or that isn't really the answer, and suggesting that current pistols aren't exactly made like they used to be. Even worse you are saying that the old stuff actually worked without having to be worked over or tweeked.

You stop this right now... !! "


Old Fuff is right...

It is made to save your butt and to proper specs.I would love to have a G.I. contract 1911a1 in good condition. To bad the Springfields, Kimbers etc. are nothing but replicas/conversation pieces that disgrace Mr. Brownings masterpiece. Get a Colt, you might have better luck(or a Glock)
 
I have 2 S&W 1911's one full size, one commander and 3" Springfield micro that all feed Hornady 230gr JHP, Winchester JHP and hand loads without any trouble. My mags are Chip McCormick and ACT-MAG. I keep the mags clean and pistols clean, but nothing special. I use the full size for shooting pins all summer, no problems. I have had problems with Wilson mags feeding ball ammo and I tend to not use the 2 I have. ANY 1911 mag can/will have issues if it is too dirty, but ball ammo (for which the pistol was designed) is a bit more forgiving than HP when comes to feeding. I would start with a nice thorough cleaning of the pistol and mags before I'd start "polishing" anything. If you can't get them running then take them to your friendly neighborhood 'smith.
 
S & W 1911 5" Bbl. Len. Stainless Steel w/fixed sights
purchased October 2007. I also bought 5 Wilson Combat
stainless steel, ETM magazines.

I have shot CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHP (40), Remington
185 gr JHP (50) and Leadhead 200 gr. SWC (70)
with only one FTF - I think I didn't seat a SWC all the
way into the magazine for the top round. It hasn't
happened since.

You might try one new WC magazine and try it in
all three of your 1911s.
 
Q: How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints?

A: Buy a SW1911. If it doesn't feed hollowpoints, send it back on their dime to correct. Period!
 
Pull up 1911 Reliability Secrets. Go from there. My 1911 will feed ammo from 1.900 to 1.265 OAL. Or send it back to the factory. I too, have a SS Loaded Champ, and it eats anything.
 
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Ok Ok I cant resist.....

Q: "How do you get your 1911 to feed hollow points?"

A: "You sell it and buy a Glock."

:D Ok I love 1911's just dont love the quirks hehe.
 
How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints

I insert them into the magazine with the flat (primer) part facing rearward.

On a more serious note (and serious notes kill me) listen to Tuner. All will be well. Torch the Dremel.
 
My first 1911 (don't laugh) was and still is a Llama Minimax.

It feeds hardball all day long and shoots where the sights are aimed.

Give it HP's and I'd get failures to return to battery with every mag. They were random failures from the 4 mags I have for it. Usually reracking the slide put the round in battery and often all that was needed was a nudge.

First...don't use a dremel on anything. But in my case I used some polishing paste and my finger. I polished the frame rails, the feed ramp and throat on the barrel. Not to a mirror polish but enought to remove the rough feel it had before I started. It is now 100% with HP ammo.

My Taurus PT1911 will feed HP and SWC all day out of the box. My Taurus PT145 Mil Pro Gen 3 does the same.
 
Well, since I was the first to offer what apparently is controversial and bad advice, let me defend myself by saying that I didn't advocate a dremel! A little scotchbrite isn't going to hurt anything though.

Also, not to sound like bitter bob here, but if it is a non-issue, then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp? Is it just a marketing gimmick that suckered me in?
 
Lucas is right

Try the Wilson Combat mags before you do anything more expensive or potentially more expensive; (Even polishing the feed ramp) I think it will be a rewarding experience causing you to want to buy more of them ("Say, what if I just replace all of my mags with Wilsons...") This is known as an epiphany, a moment of sacred clarity bestowed by God and endorsed completely by JMB. Many of us have had it, and pray mightily for the rest... I believe it will solve 2/3 of your trouble immediately; the other would require a trade for a S&W.
Solving a 1911 problem by throwing more money at it is the last resort, and very few of us are qualified to "'Smith it yourself". I own a Dremel tool; have not had it near a 1911 yet. Yes I have hand polished a feed ramp or two with dental polishing film, steel wool.
Sounds like a mag problem to me, or at least the place to start.
Cheers, TF
 
Timbokhan wrote:
Also, not to sound like bitter bob here, but if it is a non-issue, then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp? Is it just a marketing gimmick that suckered me in?

Because feedramps must be polished and smooth, by someone who is familiar with polishing of said ramps. Any slight imperfection on the ramp can stop the forward motion. The soft copper of the round will be caught into any innocent looking striation that is not inline with the ramp.

People run into problems with dremels because the polishing wheel that is used is convex and the feedramp is not concave, but flat.

The gunsmiths I know use dowels that are cut and flattened to exactly match the ramp, then they use a small amount of lapping compound that is very fine to do the work. The dowel can then be tagged and reused.

Graphite is another problem. It is instant wear. Not removing all of it can cause springs, steel, slide to wear immediately,(i.e. will cut through). If it is used, it must be thoroughly removed with mineral spirits.

The only HP's I have trouble feeding in any of my .45's (1911's & USP) are Speer Gold Dots. The HP's that feed the easiest are built like truncated cones such as Hornady, Nosler, etc....
 
Any slight imperfection on the ramp can stop the forward motion.

How in the world did all those slightly imperfect feed ramps on the older pistols manage to feed? Come look at a few of mine. See the tool marks. Then, stand back and watch'em feed lead SWCs and hollowpoints like green grease thru a loose goose.

then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp?

Not all of'em do. None of my '91A1 Colts came with polished feed ramps. They've become polished with hard use...but not to a mirror-like finish by any means.

High-end smiths polish to a mirror finish largely because it's expected. It's an attention to detail that most agree enhances feed reliability, but if the frame and barrel ramp geometry is correct, it's not necessary. If you drop megabucks on a full custom, you expect it to be done.

I will go ahead and concede that a deep, polished feed ramp is a lot of help when certain nose-diving 8-round magazines are used...but with proper magazines, the bullet nose doesn't contact very far down on the ramp...so that may be part of the reason that it's done.

The barrel ramp is another point. Often referred to as the "throat"...most people feel like the barrel ramp is an extension of the feed ramp...a bullet guide. It's not. The barrel ramp is a clearance. The bullet nose shouldn't touch it any lower than the top corner, and if the geometry is correct on both ramps...it won't.

Have you tried the NORINCO 1911? Norcs seem to eat anything.

Very true for every Norinco that I own or have had the opportunity to handle and several that I've worked on...except one. It nearly drove me over the edge...even with hardball. I finally got it nailed, and the gun will eat anything that I've thrown at it...but this one's about weaned me. I'm half scared to take on another Nork for fear that I'll get another one like it. :D
 
I polish the feed ramp on ALL of my guns. Most guns have slight imperfections that attract carbon and start the buildup of carbon on the feed ramp which effect reliable feeding as it gets dirty. I use a buffer wheel on my dremel and some Flitz polish. It puts a mirror finish on the ramp that carbon does not seem to stick to. The key is to NOT change the feed ramp or throat dimensions. Some people OVER polish or use grinding wheels that change the depth and angles of the throat or feed ramp. Leave that stuff to the pros. I MEAN IT, leave it to the professionals.
 
1911Tuner wrote:

How in the world did all those slightly imperfect feed ramps on the older pistols manage to feed? Come look at a few of mine. See the tool marks. Then, stand back and watch'em feed lead SWCs and hollowpoints like green grease thru a loose goose.

So tell me where I'm missing the boat? I honestly want to know, and I'm not being sarcastic/cynical.

In a previous posting on this same thread you said that having other people do a "Throat and Ramp" job on their own pistol causes you self inflicted headaches.

What then are they doing wrong that changes the way the pistol feeds?
 
What then are they doing wrong that changes the way the pistol feeds?

The most common mistake made when someone jumps in and starts polishing is that they aren't careful to maintain the defined corner at the top of the frame's feed ramp. It becomes rounded...or "rolled" as I call it. That effectively changes the critical angle of the ramp and usually guides the bullet nose straight into the barrel ramp. That pushes the barrel forward...and as the slide progresses...the barrel starts moving up. If it moves up too early in the cycle, the front corners of the lugs hit the rear corners of the slide's lugs, which...in its extreme...stops the gun cold in a hard 3-Point Jam.

So...our Dremel jockey investigates closer, and sometimes figures out what is happening...and he turns his attentions to the barrel ramp...aka "throat" and begins to grind away at it until he gets the bullet nose over the top as it should. The problem is that he usually destroys a lot of case head support in the process. Depending on how badly he mangled the frame ramp...he may completely destroy it. Bulged and burst cases are the usual result, especially if the headspace is near its maximum limit.

Or...Another one will look at the gap between the frame and barrel ramp and decide that a smooth, seamless transition would make the gun feed better.
The end result is usually the same. I've seen hack jobs like this done on pistols that fed and functioned perfectly, and it was done simply because the hacker thought that it would be even better after a "Ramp and Throat" job that he read about in a gun magazine.

High-end smiths use machinery, jigs, and fixtures to either correct improper
geometry...or they use'em to maintain correct geometry when they polish the areas. This is something that's very hard to do with a Dremel and a buffing head. It's easy to screw up even with sandpaper and a fingertip if it's overdone, and care isn't taken to maintain that all-important corner at the top of the frame ramp.

The reason that I cringe whenever somebody tells me that they'd done a ramp and throat job is because I know that there's a very good chance that they've lost the angles in the process...and I'm gonna hafta work longer on the gun to correct the feeding problem.
Much rather not work too hard, y'know. I've gotten lazy in my old age.

Been hangin' around the Old Fuff too long, I guess. :D
 
Interesting thread. I have two Star model S .380's, one feeds very well, the other one I bought apparently NIB but was made in 1966. The Star uses the Browning link and is very similar to a 1911. I bought an extra brand new magazine for the beater Star and it wouldn't feed, so I noticed the feed lips extended forward farther than the mag that did feed. I worked it over until it worked. Then I thought what if all new magazines won't feed? So I got the safe queen Star out and tried it, nope. Traded with my old Star mag that always worked, nope. The cartridge moves forward about .100 and jams against the ramp. I assumed the ramp angle is wrong and intend to carefully measure the other Star's ramp angle and location and check, and recut the NIB Star ramp in the mill if that's the case. If the angle is the same I guess I'll polish it with a cratex wheel. I don't intend to shoot it but can't stand the idea of a gun that won't shoot.
Glen
 
Get thee a Jerry Kuhnhausen 1911 shop manual. Read it cover to cover. Twice. Only then will you even begin to wonder how on Earth these guns function at all. They are complex and absolute minute changes in angles and parts can cause dramatic effects.

I will tear into any revolver I own in a heartbeat to work, polish, tune, etc. I won't mess with a 1911 other that standard stripping and cleaning without that manual nearby. I can't answer your questions, but of the CF 1911's I have with more brands of magazines than I know, none have trouble feeding HP's; Kimber, Springfield or Wilson.

Maybe I am just stupid lucky.
 
So...our Dremel jockey investigates closer, and sometimes figures out what is happening...and he turns his attentions to the barrel ramp...aka "throat" and begins to grind away at it until he gets the bullet nose over the top as it should. The problem is that he usually destroys a lot of case head support in the process. Depending on how badly he mangled the frame ramp...he may completely destroy it. Bulged and burst cases are the usual result, especially if the headspace is near its maximum limit.
slight Hijack but not off topic
OK Tuner or Fuff.
I have a Charles Daly commander length 1911 feeds any thing with a rounded profile but truncated cone or swc will go up ramp and hang up on bottom of throat. should I work on throat or would I be better off leaving it alone (ie do I run the risk of making it not feed anything)
 
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