Sniper X
Member
How is it done? Is it as simple as removing all the mech that compiles the Series 80 safety?
1911 gurus, deactivating the ser 80 mech
- Thread starter Sniper X
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No.
When you take out the little widget & spring next to the sear, you have to install a filler plate to take up the sideways slack from the hole left in the frame.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13121/product/1911_AUTO_FRAME_SLOT_BLANK
On the otherhand, the Series 80 safety system has an excellent track record when left unmolested.
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!
rc
When you take out the little widget & spring next to the sear, you have to install a filler plate to take up the sideways slack from the hole left in the frame.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13121/product/1911_AUTO_FRAME_SLOT_BLANK
On the otherhand, the Series 80 safety system has an excellent track record when left unmolested.
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!
rc
Sniper X
Member
I have heard it makes the trigger feel crisper, but in the Sig Scorpion, it is great anyway. I will probably leave it alone since it is the only non Series 70 I have and the trigger is great. It would probably void my warranty anyway and the gun is like two weeks old now....Just curious really. Thanks for the information and the link!~
As a retired smith I would have to disagree with the statement "the Series 80 safety system has an excellent track record when unmolested". I don't know about you but I've seen far too many Series 80 guns on my bench with chewed up plungers and firing pins that were "unmolested" from the factory. If the timing is exactly right the system works as advertised. It is rare to see one with the timing exactly right. Owners usually bring it to a smith when the gun starts to dimple primers without firing them. As far as "the little widget and spring next to the sear.." , that's not exactly what's in there.
MICHAEL T
Member
I would leave it alone I havre in sseveral of my Colts and never had trouble.
There are actually two little widgets in there--kind of tiny cams that work off each other and depress the plunger, which is under the rear sight. That little cap from Brownells works nicely, but I wound up putting my guts back in the gun. It just didn't make that much of a difference==I did got with titanium cams though.
Don't mess with it. I'm like you in that I'd prefer not to have it, but if the ignition parts are well finished, you shouldn't feel anything different in the trigger. It's when the ignition parts are roughly finished that you begin to notice. I don't like the design just because it's extra parts that could hypothetically go wrong, and the weapon is fine when designed without them, but that's something that needs to be decided before purchasing IMHO.
Jason
Jason
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Removing a designed-in safety mechanism isn't really wise unless you never let anyone else shoot the gun...or even handle it. If your BFF happens to get stupid and shoot himself in the foot...even though the lack of the device wouldn't have made any difference...you could be sitting on top of a ruinous lawsuit for reckless disregard.
Yeah, I know. He'd never sue you. He's your best bud, after all. Right?
When his disability insurance runs out and the rehab bills are piling up and he's lost one of two vehicles and his house is about to go into foreclosure unless he taps into the kids' college funds...your house and half your paycheck will become awfully appealing.
Also...The frame blank is a gunsmith's aid, used for testing trigger jobs without the hassle of having to reinstall the frame levers. It's not meant to be permanent. It's too soft, and the holes will start to flange at roughly 3,000 rounds...which can interfere with free sear movement and reset. If you use it, remove it about every 2500 rounds and dress the flanging with a smooth mill file...or replace the part.
Yeah, I know. He'd never sue you. He's your best bud, after all. Right?
When his disability insurance runs out and the rehab bills are piling up and he's lost one of two vehicles and his house is about to go into foreclosure unless he taps into the kids' college funds...your house and half your paycheck will become awfully appealing.
Also...The frame blank is a gunsmith's aid, used for testing trigger jobs without the hassle of having to reinstall the frame levers. It's not meant to be permanent. It's too soft, and the holes will start to flange at roughly 3,000 rounds...which can interfere with free sear movement and reset. If you use it, remove it about every 2500 rounds and dress the flanging with a smooth mill file...or replace the part.
Sniper X
Member
It is either Wilson or Ed Brown that makes a set up that replaces the ser 80 parts with ti or something. I hear it works rather well. BUT as I said, now I have decided to not mess with the one in the Scorpion since the trigger wil get better with some more cycles.
SSN Vet
Member
The issue is preventing the pistol from discharging if dropped. Though this is kind of a fluke, it can and does happen. Some states have a very specific drop test that all handguns sold in the state must pass.
What happens is that the firing pin can move (due to dynamic forces acting on it's mass) with enough force to overcome the firing pin spring and detonate a primer.
There are two ways of dealing with this.
1. Use a firing pin block to prevent the firing pin from moving. Colt patented the Series 80 mechanism which releases the FP using a linkage that is actuated by the trigger. Kimber uses the Swartz mechanism wich releases the FP using a linkage that is actuated by the grip safety. Both work well IF properly timed. Both have issues if not properly timed. Both can be damaged during reassembly from a normal field strip if the operator isn't careful.
2. Increase the resistance of the FP spring and decrease the dynamic forces on the FP by making it lighter. This is usally done by fabricating the FP from a light and strong metal such as Titanium. The problem here is the potential for light primer strikes when you pull the trigger.
I have no experience with the Swartz system, but am quite familiar with the S80 mechanism. If yours is operating correctly, I'd leave it be and learn to tip the frame front end down when puttting the slide back on so the plunger lever doesn't pop up and get bent by the slide. If the slide encounters resistance when you are reinstalling it, DO NOT force it. Look and see what's going on. Chances are your plunger lever is sticking up and you're jamming the slide into it.
As for the affect on your triggers pull weight. Achieving a great trigger pull with a S80 is very doable. I'd wager that most new S80 Colts come in at 5# or under right out of the box.
As mentioned, you can defeat the S80 mechanism by removing the plunger, the plunger spring, the plunger lever and the trigger lever. You should replace the levers with Brownell's shim to prevent the sear from moving laterally. You should also consider how much doo-doo you'll be in if the gun ever discharges and hurts somebody when dropped.
I personally don't make a habbit of dropping my guns, but I have had a case with a plastic latch bump against a gate at the range, popping open and dumping a revolver onto the gravel.
IT happens!
Or you can simply do your homework in advance and buy the gun you really want.
What happens is that the firing pin can move (due to dynamic forces acting on it's mass) with enough force to overcome the firing pin spring and detonate a primer.
There are two ways of dealing with this.
1. Use a firing pin block to prevent the firing pin from moving. Colt patented the Series 80 mechanism which releases the FP using a linkage that is actuated by the trigger. Kimber uses the Swartz mechanism wich releases the FP using a linkage that is actuated by the grip safety. Both work well IF properly timed. Both have issues if not properly timed. Both can be damaged during reassembly from a normal field strip if the operator isn't careful.
2. Increase the resistance of the FP spring and decrease the dynamic forces on the FP by making it lighter. This is usally done by fabricating the FP from a light and strong metal such as Titanium. The problem here is the potential for light primer strikes when you pull the trigger.
I have no experience with the Swartz system, but am quite familiar with the S80 mechanism. If yours is operating correctly, I'd leave it be and learn to tip the frame front end down when puttting the slide back on so the plunger lever doesn't pop up and get bent by the slide. If the slide encounters resistance when you are reinstalling it, DO NOT force it. Look and see what's going on. Chances are your plunger lever is sticking up and you're jamming the slide into it.
As for the affect on your triggers pull weight. Achieving a great trigger pull with a S80 is very doable. I'd wager that most new S80 Colts come in at 5# or under right out of the box.
As mentioned, you can defeat the S80 mechanism by removing the plunger, the plunger spring, the plunger lever and the trigger lever. You should replace the levers with Brownell's shim to prevent the sear from moving laterally. You should also consider how much doo-doo you'll be in if the gun ever discharges and hurts somebody when dropped.
I personally don't make a habbit of dropping my guns, but I have had a case with a plastic latch bump against a gate at the range, popping open and dumping a revolver onto the gravel.
IT happens!
Or you can simply do your homework in advance and buy the gun you really want.
Last edited:
Jim Watson
Member
I shot a Colt Series 80 in regular IDPA competition and practice for several years - sorry, no specific round count, but surely lots more than 3000 - with a filler plate. When I reinstalled the lawyer levers after IDPA got huffy about "safety devices" I saw no flanging or ovaling of the holes in the spacer. Maybe I got a better one than average.
I don't consider the Series 80 or other 1911oid firing pin obstructions to be "designed in safety mechanisms." More like scabbed on.
I don't consider the Series 80 or other 1911oid firing pin obstructions to be "designed in safety mechanisms." More like scabbed on.
F-111 John
Member
Series 80 Detail Strip: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrColt45acp#p/search/1/f8P361VGLWM
Series 80 Reassembly: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrColt45acp#p/search/2/2UW_jV0uZTo
Series 80 Cutaway Model demonstrating firing pin safety: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQtn3AfrvU
If you are at all a 1911 fan, you will spend the next week of your life exploring all of the facinating Colt videos that MrColt45acp has on his Youtube channel. He is detail stripping a very extensive collection of Colt automatic pistols from the Model 1900 all the way to WWII era 1911A1s.
Series 80 Reassembly: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrColt45acp#p/search/2/2UW_jV0uZTo
Series 80 Cutaway Model demonstrating firing pin safety: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQtn3AfrvU
If you are at all a 1911 fan, you will spend the next week of your life exploring all of the facinating Colt videos that MrColt45acp has on his Youtube channel. He is detail stripping a very extensive collection of Colt automatic pistols from the Model 1900 all the way to WWII era 1911A1s.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Very lucky, Jim. Every one that I've seen with the TJ blank has flanged the holes out.
SSN Vet
Member
That's an interesting insight that I wasn't aware of. I can certainly testify that the plunger and trigger levers require some "fiddling about" to get back in there.
Sniper X
Member
If it is for a gunsmiths aid, which I believbe is why it was designed, then why do they market it as a way to get rid of the Series 80 lockworks?
1911 AUTO FRAME SLOT BLANK
Mfr:T.J.S CUSTOM
Status:In Stock
Made in the U.S.A.
100% Satisfaction Guarantee
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Fills Series 80 Frame Cutout
Fits in the firing pin block frame cuts, permitting Series 70 slides and components to be fitted to Series 80 frames. No alteration, drop-in fit.
1911 AUTO FRAME SLOT BLANK
Mfr:T.J.S CUSTOM
Status:In Stock
Made in the U.S.A.
100% Satisfaction Guarantee
Bookmark and Share
Fills Series 80 Frame Cutout
Fits in the firing pin block frame cuts, permitting Series 70 slides and components to be fitted to Series 80 frames. No alteration, drop-in fit.
Skylerbone
Member
Add a bit of grease to the parts to hold them in place when reassembling. Have timing issues resolved by a competent gunsmith.
It may not be the most desirable "feature" but there's no good quick fix if it's there.
It may not be the most desirable "feature" but there's no good quick fix if it's there.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
To sell more of'em.
Sniper X
Member
Exactly what I thought. Plus since I read it again it looks lore like they are worded it carefully and said it is so guys can swap in a ser 70 slide on a ser 80 frame...who does that? Not many I think. To me it is a way of saying hety here's a way to make the ser 80 a ser 70 with a little cheap piece of metal and not much work.
if you use the 1911 strictly as a range gun or target pistol, then there is nothing wrong with converting the firing system to 70 system to achieve a better trigger pull. But if the gun will be used for ccw or defense work, then the system should be left alone, purely for safety.
Sniper X
Member
Well, I have 6 other 1911's and all are Series 70, and I carry them all.....not at the same time of course!
Owen Sparks
member
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I have deactivated several over the years but they were all on used guns. In the unlikely event that I got sued, no lawyer could prove that I did not buy them that way.
I carry a Kimber now.
I carry a Kimber now.
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