1911 Long Rifle!

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Cosmoline

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Many years ago I had a 96/11 Swiss long rifle. I was very impressed by its sub MOA accuracy, but I foolishly traded it off. I've been looking for one ever since but they've been thin on the ground in these parts. Today at the Alaska Gun Collectors Association I was wading through the usual junk and overpriced Winchesters when I saw an old friend who had a table. On the table was a 1911 in fine condition for a reasonable price. All matching, with the only flaw being a bit of the bakelite handle chipped off (not uncommon at all)

For those who don't know, the 1911 was the long rifle the Swiss developed in the runup to the Great War. I've owned and shot a great variety of surplus arms, and these rifles are in my estimation the very best of the first world war period. Only the highest end Mauser snipers and Swedish Mausers come close in terms of consistent accuracy and craftsmanship. On the level of craft and precision, it is better than any rifle the US has EVER produced for her troops. But they don't command a big premium with collectors because collectors don't know much about them, and you won't find Tom Hanks in any epic films about the Swiss bicycle patrols LOL

It boasted an innovative removable magazine and a revamped version of the old 7.5 Swiss that was ballistically very similar to the 7.62 Nato developed generations later. It can be fed one round at a time or by various kinds of stripper clips. The sights are the only drawback. They're calibrated for 300 meters on up, which was standard for that period. But high sights are available.

This was the rifle that prompted the following legendary exchange:

In 1912, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany visited Switzerland. Observing Swiss army maneuvers, Kaiser Wilhelm questioned what a ¼ million Swiss soldiers could do if invaded by ½ million German soldiers. The famous Swiss response was: “then everyone of us will have to shoot twice

http://www.christianaction.org.za/firearmnews/2002-2_targetswitzerland.htm

I was on my bike, but didn't hesitate snatching it up. I had no real way of carrying the thing, so I jammed it in my little backpack scabbard and rode across town to the last place that has GP-11. Snatched up some bricks and rode back home. En route I picked up dry cleaning and did some shopping, all with this enormous long gun sticking out of my backpack. Most people didn't bat an eye. Alaska and Switzerland are among the only places on the planet where you could do that, and I don't think you could do it in a major Swiss city these days.

Anyway, I can't wait to try it out but I have little doubt it will be accurate. The bore is of course minty and it has a special aluminum barrel sleeve fitted between the wood and the barrel--a feature found in most of the very best surplus rifles such as the M-28/30 Finns.

I have an idea of getting some handloads set up and going after bou with it. The fact that the bore would reach half way to the herd is a bonus. But I might not be able to fit it on the plane.

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Wow, very nice rifle:cool:
I remember an importer doing a group importation for guys on gunboards a few years ago, the price was in the $300s. I wish I would have got in on that.
The only non-K31s that I've seen for sale in my area have been badly bubba'd 1889s, a bubba'd 1911, and a 1911 carbine. The 1911 carbine was at a dunhams store when I bought my Persian mauser. I looked the 1911 carbine over and would have bought it if I had more money on me. That had to be about 6 years ago.
 
My Swiss 1911 is in pretty mucht he same condition. Recieved it as a gift for doing some work for a neighbour.

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Its sub moa in its accuracy at 100 yards and been tested to out to 400 yards by myself. Lovely rifle. It maybe exceptionally long and weigh over 10ibs but its so well balanced you can end up shooting it even off handed all day long without a problem. One of my favourite firearms.
 
These used to go for two bills, but nowadays $300-$400 is more realistic. The hard part is finding them. About 133,000 1911's were made, plus about the same number of 96/11 conversions were compared with over half a million K31's. And unfortunately since many of the 1911's and earlier models were imported quite some time ago quite a few have been customized up by our cousin with the hacksaw. The K31's, in contrast, started coming in large numbers within the last decade and most are intact.

Limeyfellow is right on about the balance. For a ten pound rifle it totes remarkably well. That's always a sign that master gunsmiths were involved, since achieving the right balance is a fine art in itself. To make these rifles today would cost thousands.
 
Unbelievable craftsmanship.

Cute little Swiss crosses everywhere. Mine has a big "P" stamped on the receiver, for the pensioner who received the rifle upon discharge. They do hang nicely offhand, don't they?

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those Swiss surplus ponchos any good?

They're fantastic. Esp. considering how little they cost at surplus stores. It's my favorite thing to wear for salmon fishing. The plastic is heavy enough to ward off minor thorns and it doubles as a little half shelter. The camo is also extremely good, and of a unique pattern. It may be an urban myth but I've heard that the Swiss considered the alpenflage pattern a national secret for many years.

Cute little Swiss crosses everywhere.

I just noticed even the muzzle guard is designed to make a little Swiss cross over the sight when you put it on!
 
Well I scrounged up some GP-11 and loaded up my bike for a trip to Rabbit Creek south of town. It's about 32 miles round trip. As you can see I've rigged up a custom bicycle rifle carrier that I'm sure the Swiss would appreciate. I don't have a high sight for the 1911 yet, but I discovered that the second gen Mojo's for the Mosin 91/30 will actually fit the 1911 just fine, and lower point of impact to about 100 yards.

The rifle shot great, of course. I need a smaller aperture for target work, but even with the big one I was able to keep a good 2" group at 100. I have NO doubt it's capable of much more. But the big aperture would be about right for caribou or moose hunting. I'm going to work up some handloads and try to fit this long beastie on a float plane when I get the time. I just get the feeling it would be instant death for bou.

One thing I'd forgotten was how smooth the action is. It cycles like a dream, pretty much exploding all the myths about the lack of camming with the bolt design. The only military rifle faster than this would be an Enfield in the right hands. And if you limited the Enfield to six rounds it would be a tough match. The 1911 is a wild Victorian machine, with odd levers and loops. But it gets the job done. You'd be hard pressed to find any modern factory hunting rifle to match it in accuracy.

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That's a nice one! I like the tiger stripes on the handguard.

According to this chart mine was made in 1915. Check out those listings--some of the dates are incredibly rare. Even though they never fought, it looks like 1911 production is tied to WWI pretty exclusively. By 1920 only a handful were made. The 1911 carbines, in contrast, seem to have been an interwar affair.

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/schmidt_rubin.html#m1911
 
Mines dated 1917. It does have a refurbishment mark dated 1926 on it and the pensioner mark.

It was imported into the US in the 1950s so lacks on importers mark which is nice. In 95% condition.
 
I just put an order in to start handloading the 7.5 again. I'm going to try some of the Barnes T-shocks as they have supposedly resolved the copper fouling issues.

But the big news is, privi brass is back in stock at Graf & Sons! They've got about 70 bags of it right now, 100 count per bag. It's supposed to be good stuff, though it's not as shiny as Norma. It's about 1/3rd the price though so Norma can keep the shine.
 
I just wish someone would bring out a mount for a scope that requires no alteration like they have with the K31 or a nice aftermarket peep sight. I just can't bring myself to permenently modify it.
 
Beautiful rifles guys!

I love threads like this.

I agree on both points. Cosmoline, that rifle is a work of art, and I must say I do like your transportation (seriously, before messing up my knee I used to mountain bike a LOT!!!). Bet you get a little better mileage than my '04 AWD Explorer!!!
 
That is officially called the "Swiss Flu", which is the uncontrolable urge to purchase Swiss rifles. I caught the Swiss flu when I spotted an unusually long rifle at a pawn shop. It was an 1896/11 with the stock cut back, what is called, an Alpine Sporter. Fortunately for me, since I put it on lawaway, the caliber hadn't been changed. For those of you that happen to encounter a rechambered Swiss rifle, 7.5 x 55 is much longer than 308 and will not chamber in a 308 chamber, so save yourself the cost of a chamber cast. Anyway, it is in great condition exept for the fore stock being cut back. It's hard to believe it's a 109 year old rifle. The action isn't quite a smooth as a K-31, but it's a great shooter. Not too long after that, I happened to find a 1911 rifle and a K-11 rifle. I believed the 1911 would be there a while and the K-11 gone so I went with the K-11. I found out the 1911 was sold that very week. I really wanted the 1911, but hey! I still got a K-11! For a carbine, you'll discover a K-11 isn't that short. A great rifle, the stock is a bit rough, but not like you'll see on most K-31's. A little bit more rough than the pictures of the 1911. Anyway, I lean guns after I buy them, and after a bit of copper solvent, the barrel looks like new. My GEW 98 is a bit nicer and more collectable, but the K-11 is a much more capable rifle. Would still like a 1911,
 
On another note Cosmoline, thanks for the link to manufacturing dates!!! Just found out my K31 S/N 5201XX dates to the first run in 1933:)


Model 1931 Carbines (Karabiner)
Year Quantity Serial numbers
1933 1193 520010-521202
 
bumping an old thread..

I have owned several K-31's in the past and own a really nice 1955 example and i just acquired a 1911 long rifle plus 500 rounds of GP-11 and some hornady commercial stuff and 20 of the stripper clips and get this , all for $400!!!! that is a steal. ammo alone is worth $300

can't wait to try out the 1911 and compare it to my already dead nuts accurate K31

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Wow, blast from the past.

OP, I have been searching for 2.5-3 years for that quote about the Swiss. For the life of me I could not remember where I saw it, but I've said that quote to people since I read it.

Thanks for bumping this!
 
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