Swiss Rifle in .308 Win

[Lunie]

I ran across something new (to me) at a gun show yesterday.

I'm not up on the surplus swiss rifles, but I believe this was one of the 1911 rifles (by looking at pictures of the '11 and '31).

The barrel was stamped .308 Win. I am assuming it was re-chambered from the original 7.5x55 by someone here in the states.

I've read about this being done to the K31's, and I understand that the 7.5 and .308 are fairly similar. Well, same diameter bullet, similar ballistics, longer case on the Swiss round.


Would you be afraid to pick one of these up? Pretty much any collector value has to be out the window, but would it be worthwhile as just a shooter? Price was $200.

 

[Cosmoline]

I had one years back. I shot it a few times but found some odd bulging. The S-R 1911 is strong but has some anachronisms like the mid-bolt lugs and an incompletely supported case head. Without knowing who did the conversion it's a dicey prospect. Might be fine, might be a grenade. I would not pay $200 for that dice roll.

I've also seen this done with even earlier S-R's which is a very dangerous practice.

Swiss straight pulls are a very poor choice for any conversions. I remember a magazine article years back where a fellow spent $5,000 in an ultimately futile effort to make a K-31 into a .35 Whelen brush gun. The Swiss rifles are precision instruments. Like a Swiss train they have their tracks and they run on them. Feed them GP-11 or a nearly identical handload with good bullets and they will shoot very well. But they don't like being messed with.

 

[leatherneck448]

for $200 dollars I would jump on it 100%

Generally any swiss rifle with a .308 barrel was owned by a swiss competiton shooter, and was re-barreled by a swiss 'smith when the 7.5x55 barrel was shot out.

this means the rifle was generally shot a lot, and was pretty darn accurate.
(at least in theory)

heres my source of this


https://www.cogunsales.com/index.ph...ne-Rifle-.308-Win/Detailed-product-flyer.html

if the barrel is serial #'d to match the rest of the gun I'd buy it in a heartbeat

 

[NCsmitty]

Yes, more than likely it was rebarreled, as the 7.5 case is quite a bit fatter than the 308. I doubt that the barrel can be shortened and rechambered.

As Cosmoline noted,

they don't like being messed with.

NCsmitty

 

[HavelockLEO]

Just to put in my own .02. All the Swiss rifles I've ever seen chambered in other than 7.5mm Swiss were done by the Swiss. That includes the target competition rifles and the sniper rifle variants. Those were all K31's, I dont ever recall even reading about a K11 being re-chambered in anything.

 

[jerkface11]

They used to turn the K11 into a .30-30.

 

[wrench]

Barrels can be set back and rechambered for .308. Also you read about chambers being sleeved, but not common.
Measure the barrel, if it's shorter than normal, or if the original serial number is not visible on the barrel, it may have been set back.
Not cool if it's an 1889 rifle.
I wouldn't come close to spending $200 for one

 

[Vaarok]

There were also dodgy sporter conversions done by an importer in the sixties, which are not safe. The .308 Winchester in a G1911 action is not advised, being of a higher pressure and the workmanship not being as certain. The converted K-31s are safer, being a stronger action.

 

[35 Whelen]

Swiss straight pulls are a very poor choice for any conversions.

This guy converts K-31's into High Power competition rifles:

http://www.lprgunsmith.com/K31_rifles.htm

I remember a magazine article years back where a fellow spent $5,000 in an ultimately futile effort to make a K-31 into a .35 Whelen brush gun.

If this is true, his first clue that trouble lie ahead should have been the fact that a K-31 magazine lacks almost 1/4" of length even accepting a loaded 35 Whelen cartridge unless utilizing some really blunt round nose bullet.

Also, I very seriously doubt a K-31 barrel could be set back and rechambered because the barrel has a very, very short shoulder and the chamber end of a K-31 barrel requires some really complex machining. The gentleman whose link I provided above uses the old barrel and turns a bushing out of it which is then threaded to accept a barrel with "standard" threads.

35W

 

[zfk55]

In the 60's, many hundreds of 1911's were imported by Golden State Arms. These rifles were all converted into .308, and the 1911 receiver and bolt easily handle the chamber pressures. These rifles were rechambered and make great hunting rifles. My Father's company makes the exact scope mount for these rifles that were all originally drilled and tapped by GSA for their own not very solid mount.

K31's were made in and still can be ordered in 7.5x55, .308, 30-06 and 300 Winchester Magnum. The 30-06 is a single shot rifle.

Keep in mind that the full power GP11 cartridge designed for the 1911 was also the same cartridge used for the k11, the k31, the zfk55 and the PE57 assault rifle.

Latigo

 

[Cosmoline]

35, IIRC (and I may not) they put a custom barrel on the thing. I remember pointing to it years back as an example of how stupid it was to sporterize. I may have the cartridge wrong, but I do recall it was a brush thumper. The whole project was ill-advised, and the authors concluded by trashing the rifle as useless.

 

[zfk55]

Swiss straight pulls are a very poor choice for any conversions.

This is simple opinion, not fact. For 50+ years the armourers and gunsmiths at Haemmerli have been successfully doing exactly that with great success. Same receivers, same bolts. Please don't let these kinds of opinions put you off these truly great Swiss rifle conversions.

zfk55sr

 

[zfk55]

To follow up on my Father's comment above, this is one of our GSA .308 conversions. It's been firing full boat .308's for more years than I can remember, and this particular one happens to be a very accurate rifle.
The stock conversion is professionally done and its a great looking and functioning rifle in all respects. If you have the chance to buy one, do it. You won't be unhappy.

 

[Cosmoline]

Point taken. I should have said Swiss straight pulls are a very poor choice for any conversions UNLESS you really know what you're doing.

I'll eat my words as to Haemmerli and your own work, but is the OP looking at a Haemmerli conversion or one of your conversions? The ones I've seen, and the one I owned, were not done well. Some I've seen for sale have been downright scary. In this case someone at least re-stamped the barrel which isn't always the case. Beyond that, unless it's signed, how can you know where it came from or whether it's a bomb waiting to go off?

 

[zfk55]

Ha! Believe, me.... Dad has sat at the same banquet table more than once. And it's sure true that if someone inexperienced gets hold of a k31 or a 1911sr they can definitely make a mess of things, and potentially a dangerous mess. I always wonder at these guys who want to change out a k31 barrel. There are a few gunsmiths in the US that can do it, but its more than a bear to accomplish.

 

[zfk55]

for $200 dollars I would jump on it 100%

Generally any swiss rifle with a .308 barrel was owned by a swiss competiton shooter, and was re-barreled by a swiss 'smith when the 7.5x55 barrel was shot out.

this means the rifle was generally shot a lot, and was pretty darn accurate.
(at least in theory)

heres my source of this


https://www.cogunsales.com/index.php...uct-flyer.html

Well, not exactly. IF, if the stock is still a full stock, then it was possibly done in Switzerland. But if the stock is altered at all, then its highly unlikely that a Swiss gunsmith had anything to do with it. Note that the vast majority of conversions in Switzerland were done to the k31, not the 1911sr's. Though they may exist, I'm not sure I've ever seen a 1911sr to .308 Swiss conversion. I'm pretty certain that it was only a GSA thing.