1911 Love/Hate

[smalls]

Last Friday, my tax return hit my bank account. The first thing I did was call my FFL. I ordered an STI Spartan IV in 9mm. My first 1911. I couldn't wait for it to come in, I was like a kid on Christmas eve all week. I've been looking at getting into the 1911 world for a while, but funds really only allow one gun per year right now.

Fast forward to yesterday. I get a call from my guy. "It's in! Come pick her up!".
My FFL is roughly an hour away, and I made it there in 40 minutes flat. We filled out the paperwork as I fondled and gazed at my new carry piece.





Beautiful, isn't it?

Now, the Hate part. I took it to the range the same day (yesterday). I had 300 rounds of 115 gr. WWB, 50 rounds of Winchester 147gr. hollow points, and 50 rounds of federal 115gr.

First two shots were literally touching each other and knocking out the "x" at 10 yards. This gun can definitely shoot better than I can.

And then I shot the third shot... and my slide locked back. Weird, cause I filled the mags to their 9 round capacity. I looked, and it had not extracted the spent brass, and the next round was trying to chamber.

This repeated itself for the next 250 rounds, on and off. Sometimes I'd be able to get up to 5 rounds without a failure, but then it might do it 9 times in a row.





I had my father-in-law look at it, and he took out the extractor. It was literally caked on with crud, and had a little bit of surface rust on it. We cleaned it up, and took a brush to get the rust off. Everything looked good, so we put it back together.

Took it to the range again this morning, to make sure all was right. Except, it was doing the same thing again. Not better, not worse, just the exact same.


Now, I don't want to bash STI, because they were closed when I called them, so I haven't had a chance to talk to them, and they haven't had a chance to make this right. Everything I've heard about them tells me they will definitely make this right, though.
I've got to call them Monday, and talk to them.

I'm just extremely disappointed, and a little upset, because I was so excited.
But, I figured I'd post it up and share my experience.

I'll update when I talk to STI, and when/if they fix it.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks for the report. I'm sure they'll take care of you. Still, I understand your disappointment.

 

[jim243]

Looks like your chamber is REALLY tight, you will need a heavier extractor spring on that puppy. Nice looking shooting iron there.

All will be well, be patient.
Jim

 

[rcmodel]

1911's don't have extractor springs.
The extractor is the spring.

I'm kinda wondering if they put a .40 or .45 extractor in it by mistake?
The STI extractors are available in 9×19/.38 Super, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP.


rc

 

[beeenbag]

wonder how many posts until "should'a bought a Glock"?

 

[rcmodel]

I was gonna say shoulda bought a .45 or .38 Super.

That's what fits right in 1911's.

rc

 

[Gtimothy]

I was gonna say shoulda bought a .45 or .38 Super.

That's what fits right in 1911's.

rc

What he said! ^^^

 

[OARNGESI]

i had a kimber that did the same thing, except it escalated to doing it every round. with one round it would eject fine with two it would look just like yours.

 

[Zerodefect]

That's what you get for putting a 9mm barrel in a .45! Lucky you didn't warp space time and kill all of us.

Just send it back to STI, they'll fix it. You might want to try some Federal FMJ first to make sure it's not an ammo problem.

 

[Walkalong]

That's a real bummer, but STI will fix it. I have a Colt .38 Super I put a 9MM barrel in, and it just runs and runs. I also have a S&W 1911 9MM, and it runs and runs. It isn't a caliber problem, despite rc's little friendly jab.

Buying something cool and then finding a problem always bites, but STI is top notch, and they will take care of you. By all accounts, they make great stuff, and have great customer service.

I would be inclined to agree with rcmodel's guess about the extractor.

 

[56hawk]

You could just try tuning the extractor:
http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

 

[Walkalong]

Unless it is the wrong one.

 

[AK103K]

Ive owned around 35 +/- 1911's over the years, and stuff like this is one of the main reasons I now have 3, and no longer carry one.

For what they get for a lot of them, you would think they would at least work out of the box and without the lame "break in" excuses.

I still love 1911's, but these days, I dont care who makes it, I wouldnt buy it, if I couldnt shoot it first.

 

[Cemetery21]

If it is the wrong extractor, a clue would be when you took it out to clean it. Most 9mm/Super extractors I've had, you have to push the hook outboard and into the tunnel to get the extractor out. The hook sits way inboard to grab the smaller rim. A .45 extractor will slide out and the hook will clear ok. I don't know how a .40 works.

 

[drunkensobriety]

There's only a few issues that will cause failure to extract in a 1911. There's a reason people used to buy a genuine colt for $600 and then send it to a reputable gunsmith for another $600. It's to work out all the kinks.

1. Check the chamber, should be really smooth.

Remove the barrel and stick your finger in the chamber. The chamber should be nearly glass like in it's smoothness.

2. Make sure the extractor is sufficiently strong. take the slide off the frame and gently shove a round up under the extractor so that it sits flush with the slide as if it's about to be crammed into the chamber. The extractor should be strong enough to hold a live round in this manner. If you can't get it to hold the round then your spring needs replaced.

3. Fresh mags are often too stiff. If your magazine is too stiff it's literally going to try and pop a round forward too soon in the cycle and it's going to stop the current round from fully exiting the chamber. When this happens: it looks very much like what was displayed in the pictures.

The solution to this is to leave the mag fully loaded and unused for about a week or so till the spring gives way a bit. After that it should work fine. A test to see if the spring is too tight: you should be able to take a fully loaded mag in your main hand and be able to push the rounds out one by one with just your thumb. If the spring's too stiff you won't be able to.

A good spring should be stiff enough that each out and forward a ways away from the mag when you do the spring test: but not so weak that the last rounds simply fall out when you do the spring test. When cycling a browning tilting barrel design doesn't actually grab the round and feed it in. What actually occurs is that the round is pushed out of the magazine and literally jumps towards the chamber, bounces off the top lip of the barrel and then gets shoved the rest of the way in after the nose of the bullet is already inside the barrel.

Any of these things can be problems with any semi auto: it just so happens that engineers have found ways to minimize all of these occurrences. MOST semi auto's are still basically a modified form of the 1911. Glocks have benefited from re-engineering which 1911's have not. When you work with an out-dated design: you end up stumbling over flaws that newer guns generally don't have.

Then again: my personal firearm collection is as follows - commander sized 1911, ruger super blackhawk .44 mag, Imbel FAL, mauser k98 and 2 kolashnikovs.

Out-dated guns work good when you work good with them.

 

[johnnydollar]

Extractor problems are common on 1911s in general, and 9mm 1911s in particular. Nine mm 1911s are also quite magazine sensitive.

 

[smalls]

Yeah, when it decides it wants to shoot, it shoots sweet. I'm loving it.
I'm no gunsmith, so I'm not even gonna take a guess at what's wrong with it, haha.

 

[Plan2Live]

I've sipped the kool-aid and to be perfectly honest.....

I shoot 1911s better than any other pistol except revolvers.

I think 1911s are more attractive than any other style pistol and can be made even more stylish with all the available bling.

Based on the way I shoot them, I have been tempted but...The realiability/need to tinker characteristics in threads like this one keeps me from buying one. You would think after 100 years someone would have figured out the design problems and fixed them. And no, a $3,000 custom gun doesn't count as a cure.

 

[trickyasafox]

I'd suspect extractor as well- but I wouldn't be above considering a tight chamber. Before going without it while sending it in, try adding a bit of tension to the extractor and see if it improves. If better, tweak until reliable function is achieved. 1911s, like all platforms, are not without their quirks. However, remember these were guns meant for military service.

My experience has been nearly all firearms are quite simple to do minor modifications like this on- especially ones that were meant to defend life and limb en mass. switching calibers is not enough to make any platform, especially the 1911 prohibitive to work on for simple jobs.

 

[smalls]

I appreciate the troubleshooting tips guys, but because this is going to be a defensive gun, I don't trust myself enough to tinker with it.
I'll let the pro's do it.
I just wanted to tell my experience, and show off my shiny new toy a little .

 

[theQman23]

Hey smalls, nice gun. I'tll work out fine, these guys are correct, its in the extractor and/or a tight chamber.
I sense you hesitate to work on your brand new piece, and with good reason, it's under warranty and shouldn't be messed with.
May I ask you to do 2 things diagnostically though?
1) Please lock the slide back, and have an open access to the chamber. Then install a brand new round, and tip the gun back and see if it falls out. If it sticks, even for just a second, or just a bit, that's a bad thing. STI will need to know this.
2) If the rounds you put into the open chamber fall out easily, great, proceed to check the extractor in this way. Close the slide down with NO ROUND in the chamber. Then, feed one round from the magazine, and then remove the magazine, leaving the round in the chamber and the slide in battery.
Ok, next step is a little difficult, but SLOWLY rack the slide and while watching the round, see if it is tightly held by the extractor, or if there is any stage at which it jiggles or wiggles before it hits the ejector. Keep in mind the difference between the extractor and ejector and re-read this, and do it a few times.
If the brass is not being held snugly until the point it touches the ejector, then you in fact have extractor issues. Could be the wrong one as pointed out, could lack tension as pointed out, but at least you'll know to tell STI that that is the issue.
Good luck, keep us posted, and again, nice piece.

 

[smalls]

Very helpful Qman, I'll check that out when I get home tonight.
Another piece of information I forgot to mention is that when it failed to eject the last round in the mag, the empty brass would be laying on top of the empty mag, on the follower.

 

[MCMXI]

Based on the way I shoot them, I have been tempted but...The realiability/need to tinker characteristics in threads like this one keeps me from buying one. You would think after 100 years someone would have figured out the design problems and fixed them. And no, a $3,000 custom gun doesn't count as a cure.

The problem is that many 1911 owners want to shoot every type of ammunition on the market in their 1911s. Consider that the pistol and .45 Auto cartridge were invented around the same time. There weren't any Black Talons, Golden Sabers, JHPs or similar loads in the early 1900s. If everyone shot 230gr FMJ or MC ammunition we'd hear a lot fewer complaints. I have seven 1911s and have NEVER had an issue shooting 230gr FMJ or MC ammunition and I'm talking thousands of rounds through multiple 1911s. If it makes the OP feel any better, my co-worker's GLOCK is unreliable with more than just one well known commercial self defense load.

 

[CDR_Glock]

I appreciate the troubleshooting tips guys, but because this is going to be a defensive gun, I don't trust myself enough to tinker with it.
I'll let the pro's do it.
I just wanted to tell my experience, and show off my shiny new toy a little .

Try a different magazine. See if that works. I only use Wilson Combat.

I have an Ed Brown Special Forces and Mars Armament THUG Colt 1911. Nothing like a 1911 that shoots a ragged hole.


iPad/Tapatalk

 

[smalls]

I had two different mags. One metalform that came with it, and one checkmate I bought.
It's been very clear in my search that Wilson's 9mm mags do not work.No one had anything good to say about them.