1911 overtravel screw removal, what can happen?

[FullEffect1911]

I removed the Over travel screw from my 1911. I know this is a somewhat debated topic with it's fans and detractors, but from what I can tell the grip safety seems to prevent excessive overtravel on my Springfield and frankly I don't like the idea of a screw that can move and tie things up.

Anyway my actual question is, what are the worst things that can happen if the overtravel screw is removed? What is a good diagnostic to see if my gun will run correctly with the overtravel screw removed?

I can fully understand some out of spec guns needing them to "pick up the slack" (pun intended, I'm sorry ) but I would like to know what to expect.

Lastly IF they are so important for function why do some guns not have them and how did we get along before they came about? (I'm guessing better fit grip safeties negate the necessity of an over travel screw?)

 

[Sport45]

The worst thing I can thing of is you'll get more overtravel.

The best thing is you'll never fail to fire because a magazine was bigger than the screw was set for.

 

[Cemetery21]

If the bottom notch on your grip safety prevents excessive overtravel, then there is little danger. The trigger pushes the disconnector rearward, which pushes the sear feet rearward which lets the hammer drop. If the rearward movement of the trigger isn't arrested by the overtravel screw, or by the grip safety leg notch, or by the trigger shoe contacting the mag catch, the danger is in pushing the sear legs far enough rearward that they ride over the sear spring leg. That would hold the sear legs rearward and the hammer would not be captured (cocked), and the hammer would follow the slide forward and possibly fire as in full auto. Releasing the trigger would not stop the firing because the sear can't contact (cock) the hammer.
So, you may be okay in removing the overtravel screw, if the trigger can't move rearward enough to cause that condition. I would do a lot of testing, first by pulling the trigger hard, release, then see if the hammer will cock. Then with only 1 or 2 rounds in the mag and make sure you cannot pull the trigger hard enough to not get a cocked hammer each time it cycles.
I'm not recommending you remove the screw, Just trying to answer the question. I have had no problems with a properly adjusted and loctited screw.
Best.

 

[rcmodel]

you'll never fail to fire because a magazine was bigger than the screw was set for.

They don't work in conjunction with the magazine.

They actually contact the magazine release button inside the grip.
So differences in magazines make absolutely no difference at all.

The best thing to do is put a drop of BLUE Loctite on the screw, adjust to have only a slight amount of over-travel, say a 1/16", and:
Fogadabout it!

It won't move again, unless you want it too.
And will work as designed from then on.

rc

 

[mesinge2]

 

[FullEffect1911]

So as it turns out concerning my Springfield Range Officer the over travel screw when adjusted correctly doesn't even contact the magazine release anymore.

I removed the screw, marked where the trigger stops after releasing the hammer (marked on the trigger shoe and being stopped by the grip safety at the back) and then reinstalled the screw and adjusted it. Standard adjustment with no contact and 1/2 turn back out.

Turns out the trigger ended up being in the same spot as I marked and I couldn't feel the overtravel screw contacting the magazine release. There is also no felt contact between the hammer and sear with the overtravel screw removed.

So in my example there is no reason for it to be there. Unless I totally missed something.

As an interesting note, with the grip safety removed the trigger does travel considerably more rearward as one would expect.

I think Springfield sure did this one right.


ETA: By the way thank you very much Cemetery21 for the detailed post!

 

[FullEffect1911]

So I take it back, it appears that with or without the overtravel screw Springfield's "proprietary" 1/4 cock shelf seems to contact the sear just before the hammer falls to the at rest position. That will have to be corrected.

 

[Walkalong]

That should only happen with the trigger not fully to the rear. If the trigger is pulled it will miss that notch. (If they did it right) If the trigger is not pulled fully rearward the hammer can catch there if it slips, like it is supposed to.

If the trigger bow is too long, the safety catch in the hammer won't work properly. There has to be some take up in the trigger. (Not loose play taken up by the screw mentioned, but take up)

 

[FullEffect1911]

That should only happen with the trigger not fully to the rear. If the trigger is pulled it will miss that notch. (If they did it right) If the trigger is not pulled fully rearward the hammer can catch there if it slips, like it is supposed to.

If the trigger bow is too long, the safety catch in the hammer won't work properly. There has to be some take up in the trigger. (Not loose play taken up by the screw mentioned, but take up)

Just because I'm not sure it's common knowledge some Springfield 1911 hammers have 3 positions. The hammer hooks, the safety notch (which is captured) and a unusual 1/4 cock shelf (which is not captured).

There is take up in this trigger, normal to what I've felt on other stock 1911's. All the internals on this gun are Springfield OEM.

Pressing the trigger all the way to the rear with the grip safety depressed I could feel the sear contacting the Springfield extra notch, it was missing the half cock/safety notch just fine.

When I removed the grip safety the trigger was then able to be depressed all the way to the magazine release and would no longer contact that 1/4 Springfield shelf.

As I carefully removed just maybe 0.020" from the lower section (overtravel stop?) of the grip safety I could feel the hammer and sear contacting less when the trigger was in the rearward most position (with the grip safety at this point installed).

Is there something wrong with my diagnosis and fix?

 

[Cemetery21]

I've never had a 1911 that wouldn't let the sear tip clear all of the hammer notch points, and I've had several Springers.
It might be time to contact Springfield warranty service - they are amazingly helpful.
I assume you have made certain that what you feel is the hammer notch/ quarter stop. Other possibilities would be the side of the hammer rubbing on the slide, or the hammer strut rubbing the sear spring or grip safety. You can remove the slide to check the former and remove the hammer strut to check the latter.
i would be hesitant to remove more metal from the grip safety stop, just because I've never run into that issue, and because I don't have the gun in hand, and because Springfield has gladly addressed any issue I've asked them about. That might be exactly what it needs (more relief on the grip safety), but you can't put metal back on if it turns out to be something else.
Best of luck with it and let us know how it gets resolved.

 

[FullEffect1911]

I've never had a 1911 that wouldn't let the sear tip clear all of the hammer notch points, and I've had several Springers.
It might be time to contact Springfield warranty service - they are amazingly helpful.
I assume you have made certain that what you feel is the hammer notch/ quarter stop. Other possibilities would be the side of the hammer rubbing on the slide, or the hammer strut rubbing the sear spring or grip safety. You can remove the slide to check the former and remove the hammer strut to check the latter.
i would be hesitant to remove more metal from the grip safety stop, just because I've never run into that issue, and because I don't have the gun in hand, and because Springfield has gladly addressed any issue I've asked them about. That might be exactly what it needs (more relief on the grip safety), but you can't put metal back on if it turns out to be something else.
Best of luck with it and let us know how it gets resolved.

I am certain that it was the hammer notch/quarter stop. I was able to remove the grip safety and have the trigger travel further back to determine the difference in feel.

I took out the mainspring from the mainspring housing reassembled and then began to remove some material from the grip safety. Checking along the way with a hammer without mainspring tension. I don't feel the interference between the hammer and sear anymore.

If I don't depress the trigger quite all the way I can once again feel the interference right where the 1/4 stop should be. The trigger under normal operation (i.e. depressed to it's maximum) doesn't have any contact.

I'm just hoping that it doesn't have to much overtravel (which it really isn't much more then it was before) and that I didn't do any damage to the sear.

Doing some checks with snap caps the hammer didn't follow and the sear was resetting as normal.

 

[BBBBill]

Was it firing with no issues before you began this "adventure"? If so, I don't think it could have been hitting the 1/4 cock. Are you doing your checking with the grips removed?

 

[FullEffect1911]

Was it firing with no issues before you began this "adventure"? If so, I don't think it could have been hitting the 1/4 cock. Are you doing your checking with the grips removed?

It was firing fine, but that doesn't mean it wasn't clipping the 1/4 cock shelf.

The grips have nothing to do with any of the issues that I've mentioned.

 

[Walkalong]

Just because I'm not sure it's common knowledge some Springfield 1911 hammers have 3 positions. The hammer hooks, the safety notch (which is captured) and a unusual 1/4 cock shelf (which is not captured).

Pressing the trigger all the way to the rear with the grip safety depressed I could feel the sear contacting the Springfield extra notch, it was missing the half cock/safety notch just fine.

Interesting. I wonder why they did it the way they did.

 

[FullEffect1911]

Interesting. I wonder why they did it the way they did.

I can honestly say I haven't the faintest clue about that one. On their spur style hammers it has just a flat shelf in a normal fashion (series 80 style i think?) their MIM delta hammers however have this extra shelf.