1911 patterns in 10mm

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I am currently interested in getting a 10mm as I am a big fan of the caliber. Myself and a buddy were having a discussion and I was looking into a 1911 style pistol in 10mm, he has a Glock 20. He stated he thought that a 10mm chambering for 1911 was a bad idea because it would shoot loose and after a while would be no good due to the physics involved. The guns I am looking into are the Smith 10xx and Delta Elite, but I have also drooled over an RZ-10. I already have a number of other pistols in various different calibers, but this is going to be my "full size" holster autoloader. Are any of these platforms proper for 10mm or is the G20 my only real choice?
 
I would say that the delta elite is just as strong as the G20 it's not recommend that you run full house ammo in either. The smith 10XX is going to be the strongest of them all probably followed by the Witness but that's all debatable and different people think different things. For the price and strength my choice would be the witness 10mm and a .22 conversion kit is cheap for it, or a smith for the extra money they are strong and well built.
 
The Glock and S&W were designed from the ground up to handle full power 10mm loads. There were problems with early Colts which I believe have all been corrected. Some other current 1911's in 10mm are questionable. They either seem to work well or they don't.

I love a 1911 as well as anyone, but would much prefer the 10mm in a Glock. The S&W guns are built like tanks and will probably take more abuse, but the lighter weight and 15 round capacity of the Glock are undeniable advantges. The much more reasonable price tag helps too.

The fat grip is a minus for those with small hands, but if it fits you that grip, and grip angle soak up recoil. My G-20 even with full power Double-Tap or Buffalo Bore ammo is more comfortable to shoot than my 45 ACP 1911's.
 
I've had no problems with my Delta Elite either and it's a lot of fun to shoot.
I have done some custom work to it to suit my needs and I also reload for it.

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Are any of these platforms proper for 10mm or is the G20 my only real choice?
If you have a few thousand bucks to burn, there's always the Bren 10... if you can find one. A Jeff Cooper model with case sold at auction not long ago for a bit over 2K.
 
I have all but the Glock and Delta. Deltas need a ramped barrel.



1006 is a tank and great 10mm platform.
 
I'm back to lay it out for you.

G20 seems to hold up fine. Buffalo Bore gives warnings about inconsistent results if they aren't sprung right. They need a 20lb + spring but so many options for barrels, etc... out there for them. I think the stock trigger is 5lbs.

Deltas have unramped/unsupported chambers unless you do a barrel swap. I would imagine the trigger pull is 1911ish.

Kimbers seem to have about the best support and ramped barrel of the 1911's. Don't know about accuracy or measured trigger pull.

Razorback is a ramped barrel with great support and my trigger pull measured 4lbs. Most accurate 10mm I have... stupid accurate. Needs a 20lb. plus spring and EGW offers a Series 70 flat bottom firing pin block.

Witness 10's have a great SA trigger. Mine is well broken in and breaks about 2.5lbs which is pretty light for me. Stupid accurate right there with the Razorback. You can upgrade the strength with a Henning Cone guide rod, Henning flat bottom firing pin block and a 20-22lb. Wolff spring.

1006 eats the recoil best of any I own. Also has the worst DA/SA trigger of the lot. Benefits from a heavier 20-22lb recoil spring. Doesn't seem as accurate as the rest possibly due to the trigger and sights. I'm getting sights! Most other 10mm's throw the brass 15-30 feet but the 1006 it's 6-12 feet max.
 
Many Glock owners have purchased aftermarket barrels because of case bulging, some have not needed too.

I have a non-ramped barrel in mine and have not had any problems.

This is an original stock Colt Delta Elite barrel. It really has an unnecessarily wide relief cut but it works.
PA280001.jpg
 
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"Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
so whats the difference between 12 lbs, 16 lbs, and 18.5 lbs springs?
All I normally shoot is 230 ball and some gold dots..."


The primary purpose of the large spring in the front of the slide is to return the slide to battery reliably after each shot. It is miss-named the "recoil spring" but in reality is the "slide return spring".

It has to be able to strip a cartridge from the magazine and close the slide, it need not be any stronger than that.
It does not control the recoil impulse as most believe.

The recoil impulse or inertia of the slide is controlled more by the shape of the firing pin stops lower edge in the case of the 1911 (square or rounded) and the strength of the hammer spring in the grip housing. This controls the force needed to keep the slide closed during the initial firing of the cartridge.

The stronger the slide return spring is, the harder it slams the slide forward and the more stress on the parts.

There is a contraversial video on YouTube that shows a guy shooting a autoloading handgun and as he does so he holds the slide closed with his thumb and he is not harmed or even hurt ( well, I'm not brave enough to try it) but he is showing how little force is required to keep the slide closed.

You do not need a stronger slide return spring to slow down the slide. The slide is easier to keep closed if it never starts moving, but once it starts moving and gains momentum it is harder to stop.
You can see or feel this if you remove the slide return spring entirely and fire off a shot. It will feel pretty much normal to you but the slide of course will not close.

I learned this from others while working on very stiff loads for my 10mm Delta Elite.

10mm, when you care enough to send the very best.
 
The Glock G20 is awesome, better is the STI "Perfect 10", Bob Serva over at Fusion makes some great 10mm 1911s, but my preference is the S&W 1076 personally. There's a S&W 1006 in the classifieds right now.
 
I still occasionally face-palm myself about selling my 10mm Dan Wesson CBOB as it was just a superb gun -- though being Commander sized it could be a handful with really hot 10mm loads. Recoil aside, though, it ran fine and I never saw any signs of excessive wear and tear compared to 45 1911s I owned or other pistols.

There is a contraversial video on YouTube that shows a guy shooting a autoloading handgun and as he does so he holds the slide closed with his thumb and he is not harmed or even hurt ( well, I'm not brave enough to try it) but he is showing how little force is required to keep the slide closed.

I did that exactly once, very accidentally, with a Glock 19 while transitioning back and forth from strong hand to weak hand drills. I had always figured that a thumb in the way of a slide would be broken or at least strained/sprained, but all it did was induce a stoppage. I was sufficiently in the flow of things that I went right into a tap-rack-bang and only realized what I'd done a few moments later.

That said, I don't advocate trying it and have happily avoided doing it again since that one occasion.
 
I was one of the instigators that got the Razorback started.
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As a result, I have #25 (my old badge number) of the 1st 150 produced.

I've been shooting it since I think it was 2003. Liked it so much that I got then owner Bob Serva to make me CCO model in the same configuration the next year.
RZs.jpg
I have packed and shot both without any problems ever since.
 
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flightsimmer said:
The primary purpose of the large spring in the front of the slide is to return the slide to battery reliably after each shot. It is miss-named the "recoil spring" but in reality is the "slide return spring".

It has to be able to strip a cartridge from the magazine and close the slide, it need not be any stronger than that.
It does not control the recoil impulse as most believe.

While that is most technically correct in the operation of the firearm, the recoil spring can have a big impact on felt recoil by spacing out the recoil impulse.
It also can reduce how hard the slide slams rearward and forward.
I know that technically the slide only starts to move after pressure has dropped to a certain extent, but even that is subjective because I have seen that with really light or no recoil springs sometimes the slide will open while powder is still burning and you can see some flash out the ejection port. So it may not be a blowback operated action, but the recoil spring still provides resistance that helps there as well.

Too heavy or too light of a spring but close enough to still reliably cycle has a very different feel. The light spring slams the slide back harder, which gives more muzzle flip as it acts like a pendalum and has also got to be tougher on the firearm.
Too heavy of a spring but not too heavy to reduce reliable cycling increases felt recoil because more of the recoil impulse is delivered right as the round is fired because the slide is slower to pick up momentum or move and so is delivering the recoil to the frame sooner. It also slams the slide forward harder on its return. So it can actually cause both faster recoil giving more of a rearward jerk, and then also give more of a forward jerk when the slide slams forward from the spring power.
A spring that matches the load well can actually spread out the delivery of the recoil over a greater period of time, so it is still the same amount of recoil overall but over a broader space of time and is much less perceived recoil.
This gives much smoother shooting, with less jerking from either recoil or the slide slamming home.
 
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Dan Wesson has double stack manly monstrosity available but you need lots of cash to buy one. Mag holds 14 or 15 10mm cartridges.
 
The guns I am looking into are the Smith 10xx and Delta Elite, but I have also drooled over an RZ-10

The 1006 is definitely not a 1911 pattern gun.

I have a few 10mm's, they've all been good. The 1006 is the beefiest by far, but the others have all taken my full power handloads (180 gr. @ 1,400) just fine.

101_1124-1.jpg
 
If you need to slow down the slide go to a heavier mainspring under the hammer and a square bottom firing pin stop. The recoil (slide return) spring only needs to be strong enough to return the slide forward and strip a cartidge from the magazine. That's all it really does.
 
IMHO the RZ-10 is the finest 1911 ever produced (not counting those custom jobs that Wilson Combat et al come out with). I've never owned/shot a Delta Elite, but just as a matter of personal preference I wouldn't want anything in 10mm that didn't have a fully supported barrel.

My next gun purchase is going to be a 10mm. I've got it narrowed down to an RZ-10 if I can find/afford one, or a Kimber Stainless Target (with the Hienie fixed night sights that replace the kimber adjustables). I considered the EAA Witness, it feels great in the hand and has increased capacity, but I want a SAO and the gun just really doesn't look that good.

I'm a huge Glock fan, but I've found that even though I have big hands the large-frame Glocks (full-sized .45/10mm models) are just too big/bulky for my tastes. If Glock had a 10mm that was built in the G22 frame I'd be all over it.
 
I've got 2 1911s in 10mm. Both Dan Wessons and they are superb pistols. My FIL has a Colt Delta Gold Cup (10mm Gold Cup) and its also a nice gun, but not anywhere near the quality of the Dan Wessons and not any more accurate.

If I were buying another 10mm, it would be a Witness Stock since I already have two 1911s in 10mm. Glock would not be on my short list though.
 
I considered the EAA Witness, it feels great in the hand and has increased capacity, but I want a SAO and the gun just really doesn't look that good.

There are several SAO Witness models in 10mm.
 
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