1911 recoil springs

[Armored farmer]

I am new to the 1911 world. I picked up a uses Metro Arms Amigo. It is an Officer sized 1911 made in the Philippines. It was love at first shot until I started having ftl's. First I thought it was the magazine. Then I figured it just needed a good cleaning. Finally during the live fire portion of my ccp class, my Amigo turned into a single shot.
After some searching on thr and other forums I ordered an 18.5lb recoil spring. I got it in the mail from midway and installed it. Perfect....like a new gun. Action is now sharp and quick. Not mushy like before.
My question is that Wolff stated on the packaging that the 18.5lb spring was for reduced power loads???? Thats not what I want is it?? Im shooting 230gr win fmj and defensive ammo in it.
Is this spring too light?? Of course I ordered two while I was at it. Lol

 

[1911Tuner]

Is this spring too light??

No.

The function of the spring is returning the slide to battery. If your gun is running to your satisfaction...be satisfied. Shoot it.

 

[Armored farmer]

Man, that was quick!

Thanks mr 1911tuner. That's the response that I was hoping for.

Btw the old spring was a good .5in shorter than the new one.

 

[1911Tuner]

Btw the old spring was a good .5in shorter than the new one.

The new one will shorten a bit, too when it takes a set. Normal.

 

[orionengnr]

It was love at first shot until I started having ftl's.

What is an FTL????

 

[Armored farmer]

Failure-to-load.
(the slide didn't lock closed)

fte= failure to eject

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just as a point of reference, it make communication a bit easier if we try to all use more common abbreviations.

Usually the 2 most commonly used are FTF (Failure to Feed/Fire) and FTE (Failure to Extract/Eject). I usually spell out the last word (ie:FTFire) if it isn't obvious by the context

 

[1911 guy]

Just keep in mind that even a good recoil spring is good for somewhere between 1,000 and 3,000 rounds, depending on the load and the individual spring. Cheap ones (Wolff is pretty good) go out of spec. sooner.

 

[Delmar]

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/COLT/OFFICERS MODEL/cID1/mID1/dID69

According to the link above, for factory loads, a 20 lb spring is recommended. I tried the 18.5 spring and while it worked okay for lighter weight bullets in non plus P, the 230 grain loads tended to toss the brass quite a ways. I went to the 20 lb spring and so far seems to handle everything I have put through it, and without pounding my buddies with empty case lol. I like the single spring setup, but I am also running a Kings reverse plug setup.

 

[1911Tuner]

Just keep in mind that even a good recoil spring is good for somewhere between 1,000 and 3,000 rounds, depending on the load and the individual spring.

Shush! Don't let the springs in my range beaters hear ya say that. They've only got about 6 or 7 k on'em and they'll wanna retire early.

According to the link above, for factory loads, a 20 lb spring is recommended.

As long as the pistol feeds and returns to full battery, it's really neither here nor there.

 

[Racinbob]

1911Tuner, a question here and not an opinion. I've read and heard that too light of a spring, even though it returns the slide to battery fine, can be tougher on the pistol with hot loads due to the slide 'slamming' back too hard. Is there any merit to this?

 

[1911Tuner]

I've read and heard that too light of a spring, even though it returns the slide to battery fine, can be tougher on the pistol with hot loads due to the slide 'slamming' back too hard. Is there any merit to this?

Nowhere near the concern that many would have you believe.

This question first came up in the early 80s, about the time that the first shock buffs appeared. They were advertised as necessary to "save your frame" from the horrendous impact.

And it came largely from people who made money selling shock buffs.

 

[Racinbob]

That was what I was thinking but I'm not as knowledgeable as you are. I'm pretty good at sorting out some of the the internet mumbo jumbo and advertising hype but they sure do make it difficult at times. Thanks.

 

[MEHavey]

From Wolff's site:
-- Corrected --

COLT OFFICERS MODEL .45ACP & COLT 1991 COMPACT .45
Reduced Power...: 18.5 & 20 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 22 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 24 Lb.

So yes, you're a bit light.
Solution: Get the whole spring kit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On that note, though, I've got four different springs in my (standard) 1911 range "kit".
With standard hardball it's a 16#
With light target loads (200gr LSWC(H&G-68)/Bullseye/3.6gr) it's down to 10#

I match to the strongest spring that will still just allow the slide to recoil back far
enough to reliably pick up the next bullet in the magazine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Notwithstanding previous counsel here, I'm a kinder-gentler kinda guy.
It 'hurts' me to slam that slide into its stops any harder than it has to.)

 

[orionengnr]

Failure-to-load.
(the slide didn't lock closed)

Never heard that one.
FTF or FTRB (Failure to Return to Battery) are standard.

From the OP:

It is an Officer sized 1911 made in the Philippines

So as far as the 30 lb goes, maybe not so much.
And IIRC, the shorter barreled 1911s go through recoil springs a lot faster than their long barrelled brethren.

 

[1911Tuner]

I match to the strongest spring that will still just allow the slide to recoil back far
enough to reliably pick up the next bullet in the magazine.

The slide is supposed to stopped by the impact abutment in the frame. It's not supposed to be stopped short by over springing it.

Interestingly, I had a guy come by here to let me have a look at his pistol just last weekend. He'd been plagued with failures to eject and stovepipes. When I attempted to rack the slide, I understood why. He'd sorta gone the same route.

I installed another spring...did a little light tweak on his extractor just because...and sent him on his way.

He went home and burned through 300 rounds without further issue. In his words: "Nary a hiccup."

Took all of five minutes to cure an intermittent problem that he'd had for 4 years...because of a spring.

The spring's function is returning the slide to battery...not decelerating the slide and buffering shock. That it does do those things is incidental. A result of being compressed so that it can store energy in order to perform its assigned task.

 

[MEHavey]

"...slide is supposed to stopped by the impact abutment in the frame."

Don't disagree. The stop's there as part of the design. I simply don't see a need to beat up the frame by using a 10# wadcutter spring to handle full-up hardball.

That said... I truly don't understand the concept of the recoil spring's function to be only that of returning the slide to battery. A weak(er) 7# spring will do that just as well as a whomping 28# spring. If that's the case, the spring's design strength within that wide span is necessarily matched against the blowback forces, not the return forces.

 

[Armored farmer]

...Like I said, I'm new to the 1911 world. I'm pretty certain that I'll have at least one from now on. I thought that FTL was a common term. Anyway, my slide would'nt return fully without the slightest nudge forward...then it would fire.
From what little info I copuld gather, I did learn that the short 1911s need springs far more often than their bigger brothers. The Phillipino American Classics in particular seem to have soft springs.
I went to Midway, but should have read more from Wolff.

 

[1911Tuner]

The stop's there as part of the design. I simply don't see a need to beat up the frame by using a 10# wadcutter spring to handle full-up hardball.

Interesting that you'd reference a 10-pound "wadcutter" spring.

There are a good many IDPA/USPSA shooters who run through upwards of 50,000 rounds or more of Major Power ammo a year on 10 or 12-pound springs without problems...and some of'em change the springs about once a year at that.

Truth told, the slide just doesn't hit the frame all that hard. The gun can be fired without a spring and nothing bad will happen. I proved it once to a doubting Thomas by firing a LW Commander over a hundred times with hardball and even a little +P without a spring. He was ready to bet serious money that the frame would be literally destroyed within 50 rounds. The frame was fine. The gun didn't blow up and there were no "Early Unlocking" issues. Nothing at all changed other than having to put the slide into battery manually. He was mystified...then he became almost hostile. Accused me of setting up the gun in some super special way so that it'd do that, even though I broke it down every 50 rounds to let him examine the impact abutment. I was prepared to burn up all of his ammo, but he stomped off.

And I've used the same Commander for that same demonstration several times. I'd estimate the total round count without a spring at around 500.

One thing. If you want to try it for yourself, it requires a full-length guide rod system. The standard "stub" guide rod will get cattywampus and tie up the slide. And be sure that the bushing and plug are lined up correctly with the end of the FLGR between shots. Not necessary if the rod stands flush with the end of the bushing.

 

[MEHavey]

then he became almost hostile...

I had to smile at that.
'Learn something new everyday....

 

[tark]

The 18.5 lb spring is the standard weight spring for a standard 5" 1911 in 45 auto. Smaller calibers and comp guns will use weaker springs. A 38super comp gun will usually take an 11# spring, and a 9mm comp gun a 9#. Wad guns will take a 13#. I don't know why Wolff had it marked for lighter loads, but try shooting some wadcutter loads in your gun. It will probably short stroke and stovepipe on you. You have the correct spring. Enjoy your gun.

 

[1911Tuner]

The 18.5 lb spring is the standard weight spring for a standard 5" 1911 in 45 auto.

No. No, it's not. Not even close.

The original wasn't specified in pounds. The original print specs call for 32.75 turns of .043 diameter music wire...which, when compared to Wolff's 32-turn springs, works out to about 14.5 pounds at full compression and 13.6 pounds installed at full slide travel.

 

[tark]

Tuner, all I know is this; In my 24 years of working for Les Baer we have always put in 18.5# springs in standard 5" guns. We see no reason to change.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tuner, all I know is this; In my 24 years of working for Les Baer we have always put in 18.5# springs in standard 5" guns.

That's probably because Les fits his barrels so tightly that the guns need the extra oomph to go the final 10th inch into battery. To each his own, I guess.

But that doesn't prove that the standard recoil spring is or ever has been 18.5 pounds.

 

[tark]

I have no idea what the standard spring for a 1911 is, or should be. I suppose whatever works in your gun is correct. You are certainly right about Les and his hard fits, he likes his hard lockups.