1911 - Want input/feedback - Next Purchase

[Richstag]

Hi all,

Im Kevin and I am looking for some quality feedback to aid in my next 1911 purchase. I am familiar with 1911's. Shot a Colt combat commander growing up and bought a Baer about 10 years ago. Heres a pic of that so the thread has some color.

KRG_3055 by Richstag, on Flickr

With that said, I am pretty much set on an Ed Brown Executive Elite in stainless with no coating. No engraving. Pretty much like it as is.

What I really want to know are what are my options that I may be missing and pros and cons or as equals?

Want:

Stainless
-Full Size
-No front serrations
-Fixed night sights
-25LPI or about checkering on the front strap ( ruled out so many because it didn't have this)

Those are the must haves. Aside from that I do not wish for additional detail/flare that I see on some set ups. Like them, just don't want it for this.

Have looked at Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Cabot and a few others, just not sure Im heading dead on to what is the best.

Budget cap would probably be at the Cabot S100 but something about them doesn't do it for me. I think its the rear slide serration design. Like it but the closer to original styling the better for this.

Thanks so much and please ask whatever questions Ive forgotten to give for good feedback to be provided.

Nice to 'meet' you all in advance.

Kevin

 

[tarosean]

Have looked at Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Cabot and a few others, just not sure Im heading dead on to what is the best.

Welcome to the forum...

I have never owned a Cabot, nor never will. However, Ive owned/own guns from the others you listed and there really is no "best". Its all about your preferences at that point.

 

[L-2]

1. Wilson Combat. Don't they use a special dovetail sight cuts? If so, this may not be an issue for most folks, but if it is for you, give it some thought. Wilson-Combat recently introduced a CQB in a Commander size (bushing barrel).

2. Les Baer. I recall Les Baer 4.25" guns having its frame cut more to 5" Government specs. I understand some Les Baer 4.25" guns may need to chamber a round from the slide release, and not pulling back the slide. This may of concern to some folks.

3. Ed Brown. No opinion/no comment.

4. Nighthawk. There have been some mixed reviews over the years on quality and customer service, yet still, Nighthawk overall maintains itself as a top supplier of the 1911 genre.

5. Cabot. Absolutely no experience. I know I don't like the slide serrations or the holes in the trigger shaped as stars, but those are my personal preferences.

Me? For my highest end 1911 I went with GuncrafterIndustries.com.

 

[Richstag]

Thanks Torosean

IF they are all good options that is great to know. Then I would be interested in things like comparing tolerances (reliability vs accuracy). Construction of parts (milled construction/stainless composition).

Other points would be what level are we hitting a very low return on price increase? What general benchmarks are set at certain price levels in a grouping like this?

I was thinking the EB EE was bout the point where returns became much less significant as price heads up from there. Im sure I am missing points that would be of great value to this comparison.

Thanks again.

 

[Richstag]

L2 - Thank you! Exactly the kind of details I was hoping to see compiled.

 

[bullzeye8]

Les Baers are very tightly fit and are more focused on function over form. Ed brown seems to be more focused on looks and maybe not fit quite as nicely as others and both Ed and Baer are a little less expensive because you get more one of the other. Then the Wilson combat, nighthawk, and guncrafters are slightly more expensive and combine great fit with great looks but none are fit quite as tight as a les Baer (not bad just personal preference)

If you really like the way your les Baer is fit, need the utmost accuracy, and don't care about being top notch cosmetics then get a les Baer. If you are ok spending a bit more money and don't want or care for the super tight fit of a les Baer then pick between the big three (Wilson, nighthawk, and guncrafter). All are great guns and have strong followings.

 

[tarosean]

Then I would be interested in things like comparing tolerances (reliability vs accuracy). Construction of parts (milled construction/stainless composition).

All have been perfectly fit and finished with no mill marks, chatter, etc. All have been tight with the LB's being the tightest, even after thousands of rounds. NHC Falcon is my most accurate right now. (course it also has the most rounds through it) I only own one stainless gun and it was pristine outta the bag (NHC T3).
All have been as reliable as all my other guns.

Other points would be what level are we hitting a very low return on price increase?

You will never get your money back out of them if that is what your asking??

What general benchmarks are set at certain price levels in a grouping like this?

Options the way you want them, you're getting a gun custom fit and finished and not assembled by a min wage worker.


You really need to get them all in your gruby mits and check them out. Here are a few.

 

[Richstag]

Bullsey8, Thank you too! Very much what I was hoping for.

Tarosean - Thanks for that addition! Sweet group you posted too!

Not what I meant for return on investment though. I am familiar with 1911's but need help as I'm not familiar with whats out there and the break downs. So by return on investment I mean for my own use.

With knives I found this through years of time in the hobby. I knew the points you hit that money was really well spent for pure function. Then you may add twice as much money any really only gain some aesthetics. Then you could double that amount and pick up slight function but no aesthetics. That kind of relationship cost vs return. Once I knew this I could then take the emotional road to if its worth it to me.

Also things like have been mentioned some now. I could look at two knives both the same price and it was translucent to me. I could quickly spot if one was that price for the function or if it was the fit and finish or how elaborate the design was. Maybe the 1,000 dollar piece could be honestly matched by a 100 dollar piece, but only in function and ergonomics. Maybe the 1,000 dollar piece actually had inferior steel and heat treating than the 100 piece, but it sure isn't put together better. I was figuring you guys have this same kind of ability with 1911's. Spot exactly what your money is paying for. Knives are the only analogy I can think to explain what I am looking for. Benchmarks could be things like at this level you receive forged parts or milled stainless. IDK

Thanks!

 

[tarosean]

Like with knives you are paying for the craftsman and quality parts. Your not getting glued in extractors your getting pined, your getting tool steel, etc. *Some MIM exists on the safeties.

Take your Baer in and compare it side by side to the other makers you are considering you can see and feel the difference in their extra asking prices. The others dehorn the pistol more and their Finnish is better. That said Baer is definitely the best bang for the buck.

There really is no price point in guns cause a 500 dollar 1911 *might* shoot and be reliable as a 5000 dollar one. Sure they wont look as good and may gall and peen down the road. Albeit early in EB's history their SS guns were known for galling the rails That has long been rectified though.

Go to a 1911 specific forum and you will find they all have had issues and produce a lemon now and again.

 

[Richstag]

Thank you. Really wish I could find a shop with all of these in stock. Called them all and no luck. What's the best 1911 specific forum? Is it a sub forum here?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

-25LPI or about checkering on the front strap ( ruled out so many because it didn't have this)

This shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Just get some skateboard tape, cut a 1" wide strip, then remove the grip panels, and put the tape on the front strap so it overlaps into the grip panel areas and re-install the grip panels. I think you'll find it more effective than checkering.

 

[tarosean]

What's the best 1911 specific forum?

1911forum.com
1911addicts.com

 

[Richstag]

Thank you!

 

[Richstag]

Vern,

It is a deal breaker but that's a great idea. I guess I'm so used to shooting what I like I don't want to change that aspect. Was worried about going to stainless for the issues torosean began to dive into.

Really the only reason for this is stainless and full length slide/barrel.

My colt is coated so I already have that route covered and its commander length.

I'm currently leaning towards Wilson combat. Thanks again for all the help. It's been valuable.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I agree about the grip tape. I borrowed a piece from my brother, cut one to the right size, and then cut several spares the same size and put them in the pistol case.
It's quite effective, and has been at least a year, and I still have that first piece on the pistol. And surprsingly, I don't think it trashes the looks of the pistol, at all.
Sure, it'd be nice to have the pistol checkered......but not $200-nice .

 

[Richstag]

Haha yeah theres always more than one way to skin a cat and I'm a die hard do it yourself guy but if I'm going to buy a pistol in the 2-4K range I want it to be how I want it. This would be the emotional road of personal worth/perceived value. Would definitely try the idea on my colt though.

 

[tark]

Hi, Kevin. First, welcome to the monkey house.

I checkered the front strap on your gun, hope it meets your expectations. I probably fit the slide to frame, if there is a "W" or a "WC" near the serial number on the bottom of the slide, it's my work. I worked for Les for many years, having retired in 2013. As others have said, Les hard fits his guns and they can be difficult for some to rack the slide. They will smooth up with use.

L-2, I spent many an hour on the Mill machining off the fronts of standard size frames to render them Commander length. I think that is the only real difference on the frame. If the slide cannot be released after a reload by simply pulling on it and releasing....something is wrong.

Getting back to Richstag's original question, when you get to the Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown level...you're gonna get a fine pistol. I will say that Les is an obsessive person when it comes to finish.....No visible machining marks allowed!!!! And of course he is known for his hard fits.

You can probably guess which brand I would recommend!

 

[Richstag]

Tark, thanks for the welcome and the info! Heck yes I love the hand checkering. One of my favorite parts. Just snapped a pic of the slide. Upside down W?

Untitled by Richstag, on Flickr

Anyhow, awesome to make your acquaintance. I have about 2k rounds through this pistol. Its absolutely awesome and the slide is not bad at all IMHO. You kinda did just pull me right back into LB. The hand checkering as opposed to machine is one of the very things that draws me to it. I have done hand checkering on knife handles and I really appreciate the craftsmanship and character. So THANKS!

Can you order the stainless LB without front slide serrations? Would you recommend a stainless 1911 or stick with tool steel?

 

[Richstag]

I think I see a worn down W to the right of the serial? Now that I look again.

 

[tark]

Wow, that is upside down but it is me. Must have been drunk that day....just kidding. I used an old fashioned stamp set that didn't tell you which way was up! There are a lot of upside-down "Ws" out there, and a few sideways ones as well!

You can order your pistol just about any way you want. No front serrations; no problem! We had one guy that wanted no serrations at all, he used a slide racker because he had a scoped gun, and didn't really see any reason to have any serrations at all! He got what he wanted. Steven Segal wanted a gun for his TV police show. He wanted the gun fit loose enough to easily rack the slide. No problem.

I would stick with carbon steel (4140) but that's just me. No difference in reliability or durability. I like the look of blued steel.

By the way, I trained my replacement. He is better at checkering than I ever was. And I mean that sincerely. I can't give names, but slides are now stamped with an "A" He does that, too. Just like I did!

Hope this helped.

 

[Richstag]

Heck yeah it helped. Thanks again. This was way more than I hoped to find. Glad I picked this forum.

Looks like LB stays at the very top of my list. Should make it pretty easy now.

 

[tark]

If you order, Brenda will probably answer the phone. She has forgotten more about 1911s than most of will ever know. I have no idea what the waiting period is these days, but it may be several months.

There is a lot of demand.....

 

[Richstag]

10-14 months!! I did email last night. Thanks again

 

[kamagong]

Hey Kevin. Good to see you around.

Is there any reason you want a stainless gun? If you want something "shiny" have you taken a look at hard chrome?

Another shop to look at is Springfield Custom. They make the well-regarded Professional, which is nothing more than a Custom Carry spec'd out by the FBI. I have a plain CC, and I like it better than my Baer Concept II.

 

[Richstag]

Hey bud, good to see you too! I always liked that 1911 of yours. Yeah, really not for the shine just for the low maintenance. You know me pretty well actually and my love for carbon and took steels. I guess you really are scratching your head! Just something different and low maintenance on the outside. I talk myself out of it but then I think it would be nice to try something different. Thought of hard chrome but do they wear off?