1911's, why so expensive?

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If I'm an LEO who expects to get into a firefight, no way I'm packing a single-stack, unless there's a BBQ that night. I'd have a .40 S&W hi-cap of some sort, minimum. More likely I'd have a Glock or other modern hi-cap.

I like 1911s a lot, have several, but there's a Glock on my nightstand.
I am an LEO, and if I expect to get into a fight, I won't be relying primarily on a handgun at all, regardless of whether or not its a single stack, double stack, or whatever; I'll have a long gun. And unless you are facing down multiple opponents who are so determined that shooting one or two won't make the rest run, all those extra rounds won't matter. Or to put it another way, if you can't neutralize the threat with eight rounds, eight or ten more aren't likely to help you much.
 
One of the selling points of the RIA is that most GI parts will drop right in,and the rest will work with only minor fitting.The Llama would not,and had no customer service.I had a .45 Llama,and it was a good servicable pistol,the price [adjusted in Obamabucks] is about the same as my RIA. I still have my RIA,whereas the Llama is long gone.Not because it wasn't a good gun.It was,and it never needed any service,but the thought was always there,in the back of my mind....what if it does?
 
1911's are expensive..........ummmm.............but not my American Classic II by Metro Arms. I do not know much about 1911s but this is a well made gun by any standards.
Oh....$450...............:D
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I have seen High Standards with tweaks for 400.
what happened to Rock Islands though? have not seen many lately.
 
I already had a colt commander that will out shoot my friend's early target model Kimber any day of the week.

I have both a Colt Commander and a Kimber Team Match II, a match gun. Not only will the Colt not outshoot the Kimber but none of my 1911's is as accurate as the Kimber, and it's not the only match 1911 I own. Fault Kimber all you want but you won't convince this Kimber owner that it's not accurate.
 
Hey Billy,

Sure and we went to the moon also.

I don't use Law Enforcement as a yard stick for excellence. Also, they all use extensively customized 1911's and what about the Navy Seals, 1911's, I think
not. SIG, BOY.

Possibly perfectly functional? Sounds like a 1911 owner.

But all the elite forces you mentioned use expensive 1911. Wonder why? Cause that what it takes to make that gun accurate and reliable.

I guess I speak for you too cause I do agree with your last statement.

By the way; It must be nice to work for and agency that allows you to always have an AR or your MP-5 with you at all times.
 
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But all the elite forces you mentioned use expensive 1911. Wonder why? Cause that what it takes to make that gun accurate and reliable.

I'm sorry, but that's an over-generalized statement. I've owned many 1911's, still do, as well as numerous other types of semi-autos. You don't have to spend lots of money to have a reliable 1911. I've had Norinco 1911's (still have one) that were as reliable as anything and quite accurate too. norincoslide001.jpg
 
Hey Billy,

Sure and we went to the moon also.
Yeah. We did, as a matter of fact.

I don't use Law Enforcement as a yard stick for excellence. Also, they all use extensively customized 1911's and what about the Navy Seals, 1911's, I think
not. SIG, BOY.
So what? Nobody ever claimed that the use of the 1911 was universal among elite units, and it doesn't have to be. It merely remains fact that the 1911 is the predominant choice among shooters who have need of a gun that is both very reliable, and very accurate, and which also has ergonomics that will reward shooters of very high skill level with an ability to achieve fast, accurate shots, including follow up shots, better than any other service handgun available. The 1911 does this. Competition shooters overwhelmingly choose it for much the same reason. If there were another handgun out there that filled these needs better, they'd be using that instead, especially the competition shooters who are looking for even the most miniscule advantage in a sport where fractions of seconds and fractions of inches are the difference between winning and losing.

Possibly perfectly functional? Sounds like a 1911 owner.

But all the elite forces you mentioned use expensive 1911. Wonder why? Cause that what it takes to make that gun accurate and reliable.
Ahhh... no. That turns out not to be the case.

I have, apart from a beavertail grip safety (which is to improve ergonomics, not either accuracy or reliability), and better sights, a box stock Series 70 Colt that will shoot just under 2 inch groups from a machine rest at 25 yards (and please note that both of these features now come standard on numerous reasonably priced 1911s). That may not be Olympic level accuracy, but it is more than sufficient for any self-defense gun, and I would put it up against any Glock, Sig, or other service-type pistol you'd care to name for accuracy. I've never had a malfunction with it in the ten years I've owned it either, and I've shot a few thousand rounds, both FMJ and various JHPs, through it during that time.

Even a rack grade military 1911, that rattles when you shake it, will almost always put its full magazine into an eight inch circle at 25 yards (and many will do better than this, it depends which one you get), and again, that's perfectly acceptable combat accuracy.

Brand new 1911s from reputable manufacturers will almost always do better than this. There's nothing in this that requires you to spend a lot of money for high accuracy. Many shooters do it for the same reason hot rodders soup up their cars, even though they really can't make any real use of all that extra power (especially given speed limits) -- they simply want to have more. More power. More accuracy. More "cool points."

Top shooters and top operators spend the money because they've got the budget, and they, unlike most civilian shooters, do have the skill to make use of that tiny extra edge in performance.

I guess I speak for you too cause I do agree with your last statement.

By the way; It must be nice to work for and agency that allows you to always have an AR or your MP-5 with you at all times.
What makes you think I work for such an agency? The fact that I said I'd get a long gun if I were expecting a fight? Please note that the word "expecting" implies advance warning, which also implies time to prepare. Who wouldn't get a better weapon than a handgun if he has that luxury? If trouble should come without affording me this luxury, on the other hand, I'd feel as well prepared with a good 1911 as I could be with any handgun.
 
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ZXgun had 1911 for sale brand new as low as 399.00 at Ft. Wayne Gun show today. Seen a stainless steel or plated one someone had for 500.00 an it was very nice...I bought mine in 1993 used for 200.00......shop around....
 
Proof by selected instances does not make cheap 1911's good. For a particular 1911 to be considered "good" the vast majority of ones that make it out of the factory need to be >99% reliable. And not "I ran a box through my gun and it worked fine, hur hur" but more like "My gun has 10,000 rounds with none or extremely few stoppages with no small parts breakage". Just because you happen to get lucky with a $300 1911 doesn't make it good it makes you lucky. If you take a hundred Wilsons/Baers/Browns/Nighthawks and a hundred RIA's and put them through some kind of standarized scientific test the difference in quality would become readily apparent.
 
The short answer is that steel is more expensive to properly shape and machine than polymer or aluminum. Add the low prod. Run factor of most custom 1911 makers and you have your answer. There is nothing special or not special abou them. The high price is the nature of the beast.
 
I have two 1911's

A Kimber which cost about $1100 new, I paid $700 used, and a Taurus PT 1911 Duo-tone which I bought new for $600. Had it not been for the good deal on the Kimber I would own 2 Tauri. The Taurus has worked Flawlessly since the day I bought it, it has seen over 2000 rounds through it. The Kimber wouldn't feed a mag full of ball ammo when I got it with any mags used. The Kimber, thanks to a good friend and gunsmith, now runs quite well. The Taurus outshoots the Kimber. The big reason that I like the Kimber as much as I do is because of the size and the weight of the gun. It packs easier than my Glock by a little and my Taurus by a lot. If you want a full sized 1911 witha bunch of extras at a reasonable price, do not hesitate to buy the Taurus. The RIA Tactical also seems like a nice gun though I have no experience with them.
 
Taurus

I, too, can't say enough good things about mine. Yes, they get ragged on quite a bit. Perhaps there are some lemons out there. My experience is with a $600 1911 that holds its own with most non-custom guns after about 2000 rounds.

I recently bought a stainless Springfield Loaded, which was $200 more expensive than the Taurus. It has a tighter fit and looks better, but points and shoots about the same as the Taurus (slight advantage to Springfield). Was the extra $200 worth it? Yes, but only if the Springfield fires as many rounds as effortlessly as the Taurus. FWIW, I'm keeping both guns!
 
here is the key, let someone else take the hit.

I have a second hand, Springfield Loaded Stainless fully worked for $600 6months ago. Guy before had almost 1900 in receipts!... Thank you very much :)

I recently picked up a Dan Wesson PM-7 1911 (FREAKING A! its nice) for 700 with 6 wilson mags, 2 boxes of ammo, 1 box of defense ammo for 700.... this is a 1200 gun with almost 150bux in mags, 100bux of ammo.

People take such great care of these things, there is no reason to have to buy new.

Ive owned a wide range of 1911's from Charls Daily's (pick up for 300-350ish used), to springfield GI's to a 2500 Ed Brown.

I have expensive guns that aren't all that, and cheap guns that blow your mind how awesome they are.

Buy what you can, you can always upgrade as you go.

JOe
 
I have a 5" RIA Tactical that has about 3K rounds through it. I had a few failure to return to battery in the first 300 rounds, I replaced the recoil spring and have had no more problems. It shoots 2.5" groups @ 25yds from a rest with some gunshow reloads. It is now my daily carry piece, and I couldn't be more happy with it. I paid $410 bux for it with 4 mags and 100rds of S&B 230gr FMJ OTD.

I have replaced the ambi safety with a GI safety, swapped the FLGR with an Ed Brown GI guide rod just for ease of dissassembly. I also put a
Pierce finger groove on it with some Esmeralda's Cocobolo grips

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Police reserve don't count ether.
The Norfolk PD doesn't have a police reserve.

You know, if your ego is either so puffed up with self-importance, or so fragile that you can't stand someone disagreeing with you, and, and you then feel the need to throw gratuitous insults at him, it really makes you look pretty damn sorry. It also illustrates that you've completely run out of rational arguments to make, and are now resorting to puerile attempts to goad your opponent into anger in order to sidetrack the discussion. That makes you look pretty sorry too.

Grow up.
 
wow Billy this is comming from the guy out making it well known he is a cop, so his word can be supposidly final? i mean, their are multiple accounts of people in a gun fight running their guns dry...and if thats the case i could perfer to have 18 over 8. just makes common sense. and any Glock or XD can do well better than 8 inches probably close to 2 inches if not at 25..so makes it perfectly combat accurate. so, if your expecting a gunfight, yes take a long gun, tho, to always be prepaired have a gun with the most rounds possible, that is "combat accurate" gotta watch your logic holes there
 
Going to throw my 2 cents in here;

I think 1911s are expensive for the same reason that Harley Davidsons are so expensive. You can get motorcycles that run better, faster, are more comfortable, etc, but there's just something about a Harley.

That being said, the 1911 is expensive because of the mystique, and the fact that it is so customizable. However, the customizing takes some skill, for the most part, to get the parts to fit just right. If you want a custom pistol, it takes money. Just like wanting a custom chopper. If you want it "out of the box", you gotta pay for someone else's expertise. If you are ok with a basic setup, your options are much less expensive.

I have had a Norinco, long ago, before I was very gun savy, and it was a mistake to sell it. It was ugly, reliable as a sunrise and as accurate as I could want. I have tried Charles Daly, and the fit / finish was excellent, but for some reason I can't shoot them without a FTFeed issue (I have tried 3 different models and they all FTF'd the same for me, but shot fine for other folks). Currrently, I have a Springfield Mil-Spec that I took in as trade. It was completely apart and I put it together using aftermarket parts. It took some time and some fitting, but I did it myself and saved some money. I'm very happy with it.

If you are looking for a good quality 1911 at sub-$1000 prices, you can cruise the 1911 forums and see that both RIA and Charles Daly have a regular presence there, have excellent reputations, and stand by their work. Springfield or Para GIs are looking good as well. As for Taurus, if you get a good one, it's great. If not, well, not so good. Citadel is a trumped up RIA; better fit and finish.

You just have to decide if you want a custom Harley, or if you're happy with a Suzuki Marauder.
 
wow Billy this is comming from the guy out making it well known he is a cop, so his word can be supposidly final?
When did I ever suggest I had the final word on anything? But most of what I have said is either verifiable fact (e.g. the 1911 is disproportionately the choice of elite shooters), or common sense (e.g. if you know trouble is coming, get a long gun)

i mean, their are multiple accounts of people in a gun fight running their guns dry...
That is an unsupported assertion. It also happens to be contrary to what the statistics show. In fact, most gunfights are over very quickly, with few shots fired. The stats available for the NYPD show an average of 5.2 shots fired per officer -- and that's for police officers mind you, who are expected to wade into situations ordinary citizens, even armed ones, try to avoid.

http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm

The available data actually states that high round expenditures, even in law enforcement shootings, are quite rare, and this is even more so for civilians, who will avoid situations LEOs can't.

and if thats the case i could perfer to have 18 over 8. just makes common sense...
Not necessarily. That double stack gun could, for example, end up being left at home because it's a hot day outside, or you are going to an occasion where your dress won't allow you to conceal it, while some guy with a little five-shot chief's special can still be armed. Your clothes will often dictate what you can carry, and may not always allow you a bigger gun. Another advantage of the 1911 is that it's considerably flatter than other large frame guns, and conceals more easily.

and any Glock or XD can do well better than 8 inches probably close to 2 inches if not at 25..so makes it perfectly combat accurate. so, if your expecting a gunfight, yes take a long gun, tho, to always be prepaired have a gun with the most rounds possible, that is "combat accurate" gotta watch your logic holes there
I must disagree vehemently with that statement. Combat accurate is hitting what you aim at. Period. It is NOT "spray and pray." And remember, you are responsible for where every one of the bullets you fire in a gunfight goes. It's much better to fire no more than necessary. And it helps to be able to hit what you aim at.
 
Search the used market. They're that expensive new because that is what the market has decided it can bear, even with all 12,382 companies that have ripped off the 1911 in one manner or another.

Prioritize what you want or need in a 1911, and you can shave hundreds of dollars off the cost rather quickly. If 1.5" gurantee is okay rather than 1.25", or some other bit, that's a chunk of change. If you think that 2" is alright, that's more money off. If you think you could probably make do without serrations under the trigger guard or on the front of the grip, that's more money gone. If you think that forward slide serrations aren't REALLY necessary, that can be money, etc.

Keep in mind that you can always drop more money into a barrel or modifications later to "bring it up to" your personal spec. Spreading out the cost is much, much easier; I got my 1911 used, with significant wear on it. Years later, I spent a bit more money to get a custom refinish, bringing it to "better than new" status, for what overall amounted to STILL being less than a "new" 1911 from numerous companies.
 
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