Why not 1911 .45's

Status
Not open for further replies.
It is among the very best platforms ever, IMHO

They can do everything well, depending on state of tune and specific parts they are battle proven as well as tack-driving competition guns. They require some training and initial cost, but all guns do. As to capacity they can be had in .45 or .38 or .40 etc with capacities almost as high as the wondernines. The single stack .45 is slim and still carries 9-10 RDS of a very effective and time-honored caliber.

The best of the custom guns do cost more than plastic production guns, but how much is your life worth to you?

I cannot see any downside unless you just have to have a plastic pistol.

Shooter429
 
The best of the custom guns do cost more than plastic production guns, but how much is your life worth to you?
Click to expand...

When are you guys going to let this moronic statement go? I see it from all the Rohrbaugh/Kimber/etc types. My Ruger KP90DC is flawless, has been for over 15 years. I cannot say that about the two 1911s I had, an AMT (wasn't that cheap) and an Auto Ordinance.

What's my life worth? Well, about 350 bucks, I guess, and I had money left to buy groceries so I wouldn't starve to death. :rolleyes:
 
The best of the custom guns do cost more than plastic production guns, but how much is your life worth to you?
Click to expand...

That argument is a load of crap. According to you, your life is worth more to you than mine is to me because I, like MCgunner, opt to defend my life with a pistol that cost $350.00.

In fact, it's the same gun, and I have had mine for the same amount of time. Tens of thousands of rounds have been fired through it in that time. I will tell you now, with no hesitation, bias, anti-1911 sentiment or anything else: I will take that P90 over any other pistol you can name to defend my life, and I am dead serious when I say that.

Also, like MCGunner, in the time I have owned it, I have owned two 1911's. One was crap with anything but straight ball ammo, the other was great with everything. When times got tough, it wasn't even a nanoseconds worth of decision to decide which .45 was getting sold.
 
I had, an AMT (wasn't that cheap) and an Auto Ordinance.
Click to expand...
Maybe that was the problem......Never heard anything good about those.

My cheapo Springfield has plain and simply never failed over years and years and lots of rounds down the pipe. LSWC's, plated JHP's, SWC's, TrFP's, etc. Oh, it feeds ball too.

I added a different trigger, flared the ejection port, and did a home made "checkering job" on the front strap. Nothing to help it feed.

Carry on fellows.....:D
 
The Model T was a great car, they made millions of them; The Jenny was a great airplane at the time; the 1911 was designed before them! Things have changed in the last 100 years. Browning improved the 1911 into the Hi-Power, Glock took the good of the Hi-Power, Springfield Armory took the good of the Glock and produced the XD. The XD is superior to the 1911 in every aspect except trigger pull (and match accuracy in a modified gun)!
 
Glock built a better mousetrap. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I love 1911's, but thats just the fact for me.

Striker fired pistols are here to stay. I've witnessed absurd reliability from the Glocks, XD, and M&P pistols. (M&P's are having some issues, but I haven't witnessed that.)

My Glocks: don't jam, don't rust, don't weigh too much, don't need hand fitted parts, and shoot very well.

I'll still hang on to my 1911's, but I don't forsee adding more than 1 more to my collection.






The whole switching to the M9, deosn't carry much weight with me. My friend in the marines deosn't even carry his pistol with him. Only two guys in his group do. They carry alot of gear. I asked him what if one of their rifles fails? He said usually someone gets to carry a spare M4 or two. They work as a team and split up the gear they have to carry. Not everyone is going to have thier rifle fail and need that pistol. Anyways, one guy with a pistol isn't going to help much anyway, basically useless with an M9 when you got a 9 M4's and a M249.
 
the departmental armourer...a 1911 guy...spoke of the extra attention the 1911 needed to run consistently under LE use and that many officers who were carrying it were doing so for the status it confered.
Click to expand...

Oh, Lord. Not this sheepdip again...

No. All they need is to be built to correct specs, and to be used with proper magazines.

FWIW, the Tripp Cobra is the only 8-round magazine currently in the offing that I would even consider for serious purpose.

Go and find a good example of a USGI pistol or pre-war commercial Colt Government Model. Find one that isn't worn out, and hasn't been subjected to abuse at the hands of a hack who could break ball bearings in a sandbox with a rubber mallet.

It will not only work...it'll likely feed hollowpoints and even lead semi-wadcutters like it was hand-built for'em.

It'll work, regardless of whether it's clean or dirty...well-oiled or dry as a popcorn poot...gripped like a winning lottery ticket or as limp wristed as your arthritic Uncle Joe...upside down, sideways, or straight up. It'll work. No 500 round break-in required.

The trouble with "1911 guys" is that many of them have never had their hands on a real 1911...one that's still in good shape and hasn't been tinkered with by other 1911 guys.

And the myths just keep hangin' on.
 
I have to say that my 2 M1911A1's have been my close friends for some years, my as issue 1942 manufactured Colt "is not worn out if you can believe it" has been with me going on 18 years & has been very reliable for me with only spring replacements.

With that I will say that modern technology has produced a great aray of fine sidearms for our law enforcement & citizens but also have given us a few lemons too "this is with 99.9% of all major manufacturing though," I'm not a big fan of some of the newer designed firearms but not because of function or reliability but just preference, like for instance I don't care much about the Glock & paticularly in the hands of our law enforcement "I'll elaborate in a moment" but a friend of mine has a Glock 22 that he's had for almost as long as I've had my Colt & can nearly run circles around me with it & uses it as a SD sidearm on a normal basis, the reason I have a reservation on law enforcement having that paticular firearm is because of the lack of a manual safety & a BG possibly wrestling it away from the officer & using it against him/her, otherwise it is a solid sidearm, just not for me.

There are a number of sidearms that chamber the .45ACP round that is a proven combat or defence weapon, the object is to have some knowledge of what the person wants & for them to pick a reliable platform that best suits their needs be it a $250.00 or a $2500.00 sidearm.
 
The drawbacks of the 1911 are that they're 1) overpriced, 2) are an older design, and 3) often need work out of the box to become ultra reliable. If you have your own armorer and are willing to have some extra work done on it, fine. They can be made to work very well. But a standard 1911 design isn't going to give you the reliability of a Glock or a Beretta.

I wish I could say rely on a gun magazine review before you buy, but all the magazines out there are in the hip pockets of the manufacturers. They get their guns directly from the factory. A friend of mine at Beretta told me, "If you think we'd let a gun go out without checking it out first, you're crazy." Most of these gun writers get to test the gun, then have the option of buying it at a very good price. To me, that's a conflict of interest. I've never, ever, seen an article in a major gun magazine that read, "You'll be lucky to get three magazines of ammo through this gun without jamming" or "This gun is absolute junk." So if you do go with a 1911, check out the reputation here first. I see a lot of jams of 1911s at ranges. One that jammed several times was a gorgeous Kimber—one of the purtiest guns I ever did see. Didn't jam often, maybe three times the whole time I was there, and the guy was shooting a lot. Still, that's three times. Too many fer me.
 
The drawbacks of the 1911 are that they're 1) overpriced, 2) are an older design, and 3) often need work out of the box to become ultra reliable.
Click to expand...
Prices range from $350 up to $2500 plus for custom shop jobs. There is a 1911 type pistol for almost any budget.

Older design? The 30-30 is still in widespread use, the 45/70, 45 Colt are all decades older than the 1911 pistol. The turnbolt rifle is older and is the number one bolt action mechanism hands down. Old doesn't mean crappy. The design is still being used 98 years later means it is a god damn good design that works.

I've owned about 7 1911s in my short 28 years on the planet. I've never had a single one need any work out of the box to be reliable. Trouble with a 1911 pattern pistol is you have 30 some manufacturers making the design and there is only one Glock, one SIG, one S&W, etc. When you say 1911 you are referring to the basic pattern of the weapon, not a specific manufacturer.

I have had more failures in my Glock 30 than my 1911 so I no longer own a Glock. I have a Kimber 1911 in 10mm (Kimber aluminum frame, Fusion slide) and an H&K P7 PSP 9mm.
 
Living in Illinois, not too terribly far from Southern Illinois University, I was surprised to learn they have a detachment in Texas. :)

Southern Illinois University Police, Texas
Click to expand...
 
you mean like the P-35, P-38 and Beretta...why don't revolvers count?
Click to expand...

None of the pistols you mentioned were contemporary to the 1911 when it was new. They all came along many years later.

Revolvers don't count because they aren't semi-autos.
 
I think we have to understand that the reason many law enforcement organiztions won't issue or approve a 1911 is simply because the people that choose the weapons for these departments don't know anything about firearms, don't want to spend the money required (low bid) and actually believe that proper training is not important and that yearly qualification is sufficient. The most undertrained undisciplined and unsafe shooters I have ever seen in the years I was an NRA instructor were all products of this philosophy.
 
in '89 and '90 in the U.S. Army we were instructed to keep our guns in condition 3 usually (out of enemy contact) and then chamber a round and lower the hammer. We were never instructed to or encouraged to go locked and cocked.

BTW - 2 interesting points:
1. the Spec ops guys I trained with made fun of our old 1911's, they like 9mm Sigs better (these guys used pistols as more than backup)

2. Several well trained units had ND issues with 1911's. Keep in mind that these soldiers were well trained with weapons they mostly used (machine guns, rifles, tanks, etc.) and pistol training was an afterthought because they are rarely used in combat. For those of you armchair QB's who disagree with this statement please show me data of a war comparing rounds fired by weapon system and you'll see what I mean.
 
I have owned a few 1911's.
My experience with them was similar to many others here. Tehy jammed. Alot. Or, more than I felt comfortable with.

But, man o man does Kimber make some pretty guns or what?
I drool over some of the 1911's I have seen. Just darn good looking guns to wear to a BBQ.

But, as a gun to wear to save my hide? I just have to go with what my experience has shown me. The 1911's just jam more than I care to trust. Your experiences may vary.
 
Go and find a good example of a USGI pistol or pre-war commercial Colt Government Model. Find one that isn't worn out, and hasn't been subjected to abuse at the hands of a hack who could break ball bearings in a sandbox with a rubber mallet.

It will not only work...it'll likely feed hollowpoints and even lead semi-wadcutters like it was hand-built for'em.

It'll work, regardless of whether it's clean or dirty...well-oiled or dry as a popcorn poot...gripped like a winning lottery ticket or as limp wristed as your arthritic Uncle Joe...upside down, sideways, or straight up. It'll work. No 500 round break-in required.

The trouble with "1911 guys" is that many of them have never had their hands on a real 1911...one that's still in good shape and hasn't been tinkered with by other 1911 guys.
Click to expand...
When I first joined the Army we did shoot USGI 1911's.
And even the ones that were not worn out suffered the occasional failure-to-feed or failure-to-eject.
The Army has always taught troops how to handle such failures when shooting the 1911 because 1911's have always had such failures.
The 1911 is a fine handgun....nobody disputes this.
But to claim that they simple don't fail is utter nonsense.
 
in '89 and '90 in the U.S. Army we were instructed to keep our guns in condition 3 usually (out of enemy contact) and then chamber a round and lower the hammer. We were never instructed to or encouraged to go locked and cocked.
Click to expand...
This was not true in my experience.
When I was a soldier (9th ID, 2nd ID, 101st ABN) we were instructed to keep them in condition 3 when in safe areas away from potential enemy contact.
And even in areas of potential enemy contact we were always instructed to carry in condition 3 (when you rifle fails, then you chamber a round).

We were NEVER instructed to lower the hammer on a chambered round.
 
The question was why NOT the 1911--not alternately defend and or bash the thing.

1. Not all 1911's are made to the same tolerances, some are better than others, some are too tight. A pre-war commercial Colt will run better than a Gold Cup, which might not feed hollowpoints and dislike adverse weather. A Gold Cup is a target pistol not a 'fighting gun' though PLENTY of people will argue this. Tightening the slide to frame fit was OFTEN a part of accurizing the 1911, and it's possible to over-do it. Colt made the 'Government Model' for well over 70 years without much commercial competition. Yes I realize Springfield--the real one, Singer and Remington Rand and Savage made them in WW2, but SW, DW, Kimber, et al weren't making 1911's in the early 80's. AMT and Detonics were to varying degrees of success. Colt's patent expiring didn't mean the OTHER guys followed Colt's patent and specs to the letter, some will argue they have improved upon it.

2. Expect some oil/grease on your clothes. 1911's require lubricant to run well and while CLP is neat for some weapons, a 1911 usually needs grease on the barrel bushing and frame rails. Pick your dress pants accordingly.

3. It doesn't fit some people's hands. Plain and simple, while I don't need a memory bump, and arched or flat is fine by me, there are other models out there with readily swapped out back straps and grip panels for a better fit that come with the gun. No 1911 has this.

4. While the 1911 is an infinitely customizable gun, over customizing by hobbyists has often led to a less than reliable pistol.

5. Capacity. Unless you are packing a Para widebody you are looking at 7-8-9 shots depending on how you load and if you 'top off.'

6. Expense. When your not a member of a department and you don't reload, the 45 ACP can be pricey.

7. Hammerbite. While this is more of an example of proper fit, a LOT of people get pinched or cut by the hammer, and with some folks installing an aftermarket beaver tail grip safety or bobbed hammer is the only solution for making this arm 'work' for them.

Now all that being said, I still think the plusses outwiegh the minuses.
 
All of the 1911 malfunctions AND M-9 functions I saw were due to the same thing -bad magazines. I proved this by stealing (oh yes, I said it) some of both and trying them in civilian guns. Same mags, same malfunctions. Particularly the 1911 mags, the army bought such a variety from so many different sources from the lowest bidder between (in this case) the end of WWII and 1992, it makes me seriously wonder what would have happened if I had tried some high-end aftermarket mags in them. I bet the problems would have disappeared.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
Colt 1911 slide/frame dimensions .45 vs. .38 super
Replies
4
Views
4K
stans
S
M
  • Locked
Are people liking their 9mm 1911's?
Replies
20
Views
1K
CWatson
C
L
  • Locked
Are Nighthawk custom 1911's worth the money?
Replies
11
Views
6K
Ankeny
A
R
  • Locked
Info needed on the Rock Island Armory G.I. .45's
Replies
9
Views
700
The Kidd
T
M
  • Locked
1911 9mm?
Replies
17
Views
995
aircarver
A
Back
Top