1963 Marlin 30-30 we Microgrooves

Revilo

Revilo

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Joined
Oct 14, 2018
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I read a couple of the old threads but wanted to clarify a couple of things. I noticed reloaded recommendations to use a .311 diameter bullet but all of the reloading manuals use .308 diameter Bullet. Two questions: 1. will my 1963 Marlin fire .311 bullets? 2. should I count on needing additional grains powder to the Lyman catalog diameter (assuming same bullet weight)?
 
To the best of my knowledge, 30-30 is 30-30. I did a quick search and found some loading lead bullets at .310 In a Marlin.

I would tell you to slug your gun, but I wouldn’t have have a clue how to do that with micro-groove. I’d try it anyway with some soft lead.

Jacketed bullets run .308 for instance Hornady MonoFlex and InterLock RN. Missouri lead Whitetail for lever guns run .309 which I would expect for lead. However GT lead does run .311

Here’s an article by John Taffin might help.
gunsmagazine.com

Cast Bullets And The .30-30

For full power deer loads in the .30-30 I mostly use 150-gr. jacketed bullets — either Sierra FPs or Winchester Silvertips but for everyday use, my choice is
gunsmagazine.com gunsmagazine.com

1696809646295.png
 
Normal 308 will be fine, you want a bigger lead bullet in the mg barrels. All the ones I had shot lead pretty good. If a 311 will chamber it will shoot I'd back the charge off some if using a bigger jacketed bullet.
 
I “slugged” it today and it measured at exactly 308. I suppose the problem in past may have been shape of the bullet. The 160 grain Hornady Lever ammo are more like boat tails and will not stabilize in a 20” Microgroove barrel. today, I bought a box of Remington 170 grain HPs which appear to be a stockier bullet. Tryouts tomorrow.
 
I tried several different .308 plated and lead bullets in my Marlin when trying to find a lite load for the family. It would group like a shotgun. Ended up getting some .311 powder coated from MBC and they are a lot more accurate.

I hadn’t messed with jacketed bullets yet. I have a load worked up with the speer 150gr but haven’t got the time to test it out yet.
 
I've run a lot of .308" cast in several different rifles... including .308 and .30-30. Although the correct answer is 'it depends on your rifle' I can tell you a shortcut to success with the Marlin...

The way I do it now is... I have some .309" cast bullets, and run a small lot of those, first, to see how it does. If the accuracy is not on par with my expectations, I go up to the .310"... and I usually don't have a problem thereafter. This method worked for me in both a MicroGroove Marlin 336, and my pre-war Savage 99, both in .30-30. The Savage in particular threw .309" bullets like a shotgun... but the .310's grouped very nicely. In an extreme circumstance, I could see trying .311"s., but I would NOT start there. Powder coating may help bore fit, and a gas check can help, too, but shouldn't be absolutely necessary.

.308 Savage 99 on L, with .309" cast bullets (the .308 Savage doesn't care about bullet diameter...) and the .30-30 Savage 99 on R, with .310" cast bullets, at 100yds, offhand...

SOA7Pacl.jpg
 
You shouldn’t have any issues with jacketed bullets. With cast, the bullets need to be just a tad oversized because of the shallow grooves. My 1973 Marlin slugged at .309, and I shoot MBC .311 Whitetail #4. They work great in mine.
 
I shoot .310 just like Charlie98 in my win94 in cast. For cast .310 seems to be really universally good and if your still not getting good results go larger. My Marlin MG 357 shoots .358 just great and that is pretty universal in size for that loading. Order a sample pack from noe of both sizes and run a side by each test.... I've also had good results with the 150 berry's
 
I haven’t worked up a jacketed load in a long time but they all seemed to shoot about the same. The 160 grain FTX and 150 grain round nose from Hornady are the only jacketed bullets I’ve tried. Now that I’ve scoped my 336, I plan to revisit those loads.

For cast bullets I’ve shot Acme 135 grain bullets and MBC White Tail 4 with about equal accuracy. Acmes mic at 0.3095” and MBC are supposed to be 0.311” or Marlin barrels though I haven’t measured them. This is the Acme 135 grain RNFP, W231 pistol powder and a Winchester LPP. I’ve had good results with reduced charges of H335 as well with both cast bullets.
CF430769-FBFD-42B0-901E-B97AFA6FFB46.jpeg
 
Hoping problem solved. I tried Core Lokt 170 grain HPs today and they cut a clean hole. It appears the heavier grain, flat base and fatter nose equates to more bullet touching the grooves. I installed a Williams peep sight tonight and will see if they’ll dial in. It will be a few days.
 
I installed a Williams peep sight and it works very well. I have a scope on it now for load testing but there’s nothing wrong with a peep.
 
Revilo said:
It appears the heavier grain, flat base and fatter nose equates to more bullet touching the grooves. I installed a Williams peep sight tonight
Click to expand...

I've always preferred the 170's over the traditional 150's in the .30-30, but more importantly, my Marlins have as well.

OOoooo... did someone say Williams peep sights on a lever-gun???

dqykfhol.jpg


Yes, I'm a fan....
 
Charlie98 said:
I've always preferred the 170's over the traditional 150's in the .30-30, but more importantly, my Marlins have as well.

OOoooo... did someone say Williams peep sights on a lever-gun???

dqykfhol.jpg


Yes, I'm a fan....
Click to expand...
I have several Williams and one Lyman rear peep. The Williams are much nicer imo. Strangely all the front globes are marlin.
 
Revilo said:
Hoping problem solved. I tried Core Lokt 170 grain HPs today and they cut a clean hole. It appears the heavier grain, flat base and fatter nose equates to more bullet touching the grooves. I
Click to expand...
The issue with the Micro groove barrel with lead bullets is the bullet can bypass the rifling if the velocity is to high, leading to inadequate spin of the projectile.
So a larger diameter bullet will correct the problem.
Not sure about slugging a micro groove barrel, the grooves are pretty dang small.
Take a look at Missouri Bullet company's site if you want to try lead bullets. I'm not sure about gas checked lead bullets in a Marlin micro groove barrel, love to here some feed back on that.
 
joneb said:
I'm not sure about gas checked lead bullets in a Marlin micro groove barrel, love to here some feed back on that.
Click to expand...

I've run gas checked cast in my 336 Marlin... I don't know if they helped at all, they certainly didn't hurt. With the MicroGroove barrel, bullet size is paramount; because of the shallow rifling, the bullet has to be sized to seal the bore.

I regularly run cheapo commercial 'hard' cast non-GC bullets in my .41 Marlin, with MicroGroove rifling... normally in the 1500-1550fps range, but I've pushed them as high as 1730fps without issues. I'm lucky with the .41, though... bore diameter is pretty standard across all manufacturers... not so much with something like the .30-30, where a little testing can go a long way. That is not exclusive to the MicroGroove, either.
 
joneb said:
The issue with the Micro groove barrel with lead bullets is the bullet can bypass the rifling if the velocity is to high, leading to inadequate spin of the projectile.
So a larger diameter bullet will correct the problem.
Not sure about slugging a micro groove barrel, the grooves are pretty dang small.
Take a look at Missouri Bullet company's site if you want to try lead bullets. I'm not sure about gas checked lead bullets in a Marlin micro groove barrel, love to here some feed back on that.
Click to expand...
Ask JMorris if you can borrow his swimming pool.
 
Maybe an apples and oranges comparison but…

I have Marlin 357 Mag micro groove rifle (1894C). It shoots jacketed bullets well, aka small groups. Cast bullets do not shoot terribly but they do not approach the groups of my jacketed loads.

I suppose playing with bullet diameter may discover an optimum bullet size.

I have not played with powder coated or plated bullets in the Marlin so there may be a magic combination that may work.

The 30-30 rifle may have different needs. I just provide some info that may be applicable to 30-30.
 
lowcountry308 said:
I tried several different .308 plated and lead bullets in my Marlin when trying to find a lite load for the family. It would group like a shotgun. Ended up getting some .311 powder coated from MBC and they are a lot more accurate.

I hadn’t messed with jacketed bullets yet. I have a load worked up with the speer 150gr but haven’t got the time to test it out yet.
Click to expand...
If you want a fun plinking load, try some 110 grain RMR RN jacketed bullets. I shoot them out of my Winchester 94 with a reduced load of H4895.
 
For my Marlin levers (30-30, .357, .444) with MG rifling I leave the bullets as dropped from the mold and heat treat them as explained in the Lyman Cast Boolit Handbook. I lube with Lee liquid alox. Never had a problem. The 150grn 30-30 load is close to 2000fps IIRC. Haven,t shot any in a long time. Just plinking range loads. I wouldn,t shoot game with a heat treated boolit. No expansion.
 
#4 is the Savage 99 in .308, as pictured in my range photo #7 above (L.) Just a fabulous rifle, and quite a shooter. Here I am up in WY a few years ago, whacking the 600yd dinger. You will note the Williams is jacked out nearly to the stops... The 170grn cast bullet does well, but it really runs out of steam after about 400yds.

42C3BItl.jpg


L to R...

Marlin 1895 LTD V (gone,) Browning 71 .348WCF (never leaving my possession,) Marlin 1894FG .41MAG (never leaving my possession,) Savage 99F .308 (never leaving my possession,) Marlin 336 .30-30 (sold to a friend,) and my first ever rifle Marlin 15 single-shot .22. Since that photo, I have added the little Williams peep to my H&R Classic Hunter in .45 Colt, and my other 2 Marlin .22's.
 
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