2" barreled 357 mags; a couple questions

[Doogy]

I'm considering a classic S&W model 60 357, and was wondering what the recoil is like with this short of a barrel and reduced grip length. Are these guns better suited for 38 special instead?

Also, if i do use factory 357 defense rounds, do i lose a lot of FPS going with a barrel this short?

thanks!

Doug

 

[Youngrevolver]

The recoil on smiths are rediculous with .357's. They have exposed backstraps which punish your palms while shooting. You can get a houge mono grip or uncle mike combat grip, but they are not suited for CC. Through the test I've seen as far as velocity you lose maybe 100-200 fps. You are still getting 1100 fps out of the 2" with 125 grain Rem Golden Sabers. I would recommend the Ruger SP101 as a 2" revolver with custom badger grips. The recoil with this combo is like shooting a full size gun. Very accurate and a blast to shoot even with full house magnums.

 

[joneb]

There are options for taming the .357 in a small package, and here is one http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=21
If this is still too much would reloading be a option ?, if not then .38spl +p may be the answer but accuracy may suffer. Recoil tolerance varies just like car mileage so don't take that to the bank

 

[Voodoo1951]

My S&W Model 65-3 is a hand cannon...



I really like to shoot my Taurus 606 as it is much easier on the hand as far as recoil pain and will really get the job done. As a rule, I shoot .38 specials at the range and use .375 defense rounds for the zombies...

 

[Youngrevolver]

You should really practice with what you carry. Not so much HP's but at least same cal./bullet size.

 

[Texasgunlover]

A real attention getter as far as recoil,but take into account that if you miss, the muzzle blast will be a great equalizing force by itself.Try shooting it at night to see and feel the full effect.

 

[jglcolosprgs]

I sure like my Model 60 in 357. It is my pocket carry weapon.



I prefer the wood grips for aesthetics and ease of carry. Setting off full power 357 mag rounds as pictured is like setting off a hand grenade in your hand. But, it leaves you with no questions about the effectiveness of the 357 as a self defense round.

Here are the factory grips which cover the back strap and make it much more pleasant to shoot the 357 rounds.



The length of these grips was why I replaced them for pocket carry. They are an outstanding option if you holster carry IWB, OWB or in a shoulder rig.

In my NOT so humble opinion, the 357 platform for the Model 60 is the best option. I can carry any 38 special, +P, +P+ or 357 magnum ammo I choose to shoot. It allows me more flexibility for energy levels and bullet weight. I like the steel J frames over the air weights for shootabilty and controlability The Model 60 IS harder / less comfortable to carry.

I think the Rugers are fine guns, just not my cup of tea, size and weight wise.

I start lots of new shooters out with this pistol using 38 target loads and go from there. You learn the basics with the low power, cheap ammo and work your way up to full power loads.

Shooting any snub nose is much harder than a larger / longer pistol. Most people don't want to make the investment in time and effort to get proficient with one.

 

[MCgunner]

I'm considering a classic S&W model 60 357, and was wondering what the recoil is like with this short of a barrel and reduced grip length. Are these guns better suited for 38 special instead?

Also, if i do use factory 357 defense rounds, do i lose a lot of FPS going with a barrel this short?

thanks!

Doug

Okay for my 2 cents. I consider the .357 magnum best left to steel revolvers. 12 ounce scandium guns just plain hurt and second shot is measured on a calender. Maybe you could handle it, but I'd consider any such gun a .38 at best.

I also like a hand filling grip like the hogue on a belt gun. I had an SP101 2.3" gun and it was quite easy to shoot with the hogue on it. With the stock grip, not so much. The trigger guard hurt on that thing, wuuld swell up after a few shots. The hogue eliminated that and still allowed a high hand grip. But, big grips also relegate the gun to a belt carry for size reasons added to the weight reasons.

Out of a 2" barrel, you're best off shooting 140 grain or heavier. 125s accelerate so fast out of the gun, they don't catch the pressure peak and it turns into a huge fireball instead of doing any good. Faster powders will help. but with the best short barrel loads, figure on something just over 400 ft lbs. I get 410 ft lbs from a Kel Tec pocket 9mm shooting 9x19 +P 115 grain and have less recoil even in a 14 ounce gun than I dealt with in the SP101, less fireball. Yes, the .357 really needs 3" or more barrel and I'd stick with a 140 grain load or more in the shorter barrels. I was able to get 550 ft lbs out of my 2.3' SP101 with a 140 grain hot load. That's superior to 9x19, but I don't know if it's worth all the flash/bang.

So, anyway, many disagree, but if it's got a 2" barrel and especially if it's an alloy or titamium, I'll just go for an alloy .38 for carry and save some money. I've done the testing, fired the guns, and I'm happy with .38 special in a pocket revolver. If you go to a 3" belt carry, the SP101 is awesome. The little J frames are weaker, but will work if you don't feed 'em a steady diet of hot stuff. The SP101 2.3" is only 27 ounces and the Js run 24 or 25 or something in steel. I don't see that they offer any weight advantage for carry. The SP101 is my favorite, although I currently have an older Taurus 3" M66 that fills that roll. It's a bit heavier and a little wider, but I carry it OWB and it's quite comfy if you can conceal it that way, bit of a pain in warm weather, but that's why God invented the Hawaiian shirt.

In a pocket, though, I'll stick with 9mm pocket guns or .38 alloys.

Again, JMHO based on MY experience. YMMV I feel I should say that before someone jumps on me.

 

[Doogy]

thanks very much for your time folks, I appreciate the voices of experience here. As a gun owner and a informed consumer, I like to check things out before a purchase, to weigh the pros and cons. I'll take a look at these 60 models, as I can certainly shoot the 38spl through it if i don't want to venture into full-house magnums.

thanks again!

Doug

 

[keltex78]

My EAA Windicator is entirely manageable with full power loads, due in large part I'm sure to the molded grips that fit my hands really well. I still prefer to keep it loaded with Short Barrel Gold Dots for defensive use. They seem to be a little weaker than a full power load but I definitly do NOT feel undergunned at any time with this one...

 

[docsleepy]

You guys are way way more macho than ME.
We have an alloy J frame 642-2 (+P rated) but we gave away the box of +P because no one in the house was willing to pull the trigger. I don't even like (at the range) 38-special.

I load my own (see hilarious nearby thread for a recent goof) 148- or 158-grain with tiny loads. But they are FUN to shoot at the range! Not "bearable" but FUN! I get 100 ft lbs with my tiniest load, and maybe 130 with the larger -- way way below normal 38 spl. But also in the same ballpark as .380, and way above .32 or lower.

When I miss, these projectiles go right through a 2x2 pine....
Have you ever seen a human lung? It's like a sponge -- zero strength. Heart is nothing compared to a 2x2. Sure the stopping power isn't up there with a .45, but its gotta do some damage!

I have a full size 9mm that is a pleasure to shoot 300+ ft lb loads, but it can't be hidden in a pocket; my little .38 can, easily, in a jeans pocket if I use the stock grips. Regular .38spl I can tolerate, or handloaded to maybe 175 ft lbs or so -- but no +P or hotter for me in a 15 ounce concealed miniature gun! I'm just not that macho! MOre power to you guys with the far studier hands than mine!

 

[dairycreek]

My Model 60 S & W in 357 with a 3" barrel. Hogue grips on it and it is really not too bad in the recoil department. Of course 38+P's are much more comfortable but, all in all, the 357 is okay.

 

[jglcolosprgs]

I load my own (see hilarious nearby thread for a recent goof) 148- or 158-grain with tiny loads. But they are FUN to shoot at the range! Not "bearable" but FUN!

Oh, I understand what you are saying completely!! And agree.

If I have a new student or one that is recoil shy we start out on the 22 pistols and work up to the snubby with the target loads by the end of the session. It does make it fun and you get to learn all the "right" things, instead of duck and cover every time you pull the trigger.

I'd rather touch off my Model 29 instead of that J frame with 135gr 357 Magnum Gold Dots!!

But, I can't carry my 8 3/8 "Wand of Callahan" in my pocket!!

 

[evan price]

I have a 2.5" Mod 66 with Pachmayr Gripper grips, with my usual .357 handload it's no problem at all. I also have a Taurus 605 with Hogue grips, and with the same load you do feel it. It's not terrible, no worse than my KelTec PF9 with +P 9mm; however I do have large hands and size 16 ring finger.
There is more recoil than in a fullframe 4" or 6" model. But that's what you get with a smaller chassis.
You will give up around 150-250 fps depending on the load, but the Speer short barrel loads will make up for that, or handload a fast powder.

 

[340PD]

I have a mod 640. I load my own ammo and use a mid load in .357 brass just to ease cleaning the cylinder. I have 305 crimson trace grips on it. It is very plesant to shoot. My alloy/scandium 340pd is also shootable with full house .357. I do not do that a lot as it is a memorable experience and I feel it may be battering the firearm more than necessary. I do use Speer Gold Dot 38 special loads in both for carry and feel quite comfortable with them.

 

[jglcolosprgs]

You got that right!!

I have a 2.5" Mod 66 with Pachmayr Gripper grips, with my usual .357 handload it's no problem at all.

I think that the K frame snubbies are the top of the game for the S&W sub nose line. The additional size and weight make them very controllable and practical for full power loads. They are not usually considered "pocket" guns, but they carry quite well.

You may notice a trend in the posts, most people use mid range or target loads for the majority of practice and then spend less time with the full power carry stuff. If you use the K frame guns it is easier to practice with what you shoot.

Way more expensive, but quite doable!!

 

[revolvergeek]

I chrono'd some (sadly discontinued) Federal .357 mag 140 JHPs our of a 640-1 earlier this month and got an average velocity of 1135 fps. That is a lot of thump in a little package! Recoil and blast on them are much nicer than with full power 125s.

Eagle Secret Service Grips or Herrett Shooting Stars make all the difference in the world in control. It kicks but doesn't wiggle or squirm around.