200 gr LSWC load for STI Target Master

[Ceapea]

Hello,

I'm a new owner of a very nice condition, used STI Target Master. In getting familiar with the pistol, I couldn't help but notice the extreme ease to cycle the slide by hand...racking the slide. Much reduced effort compared to several of my 5" guns with "std" recoil springs (16#-17#). Anyway after some searching on line, I found info that STI used 14# springs in their 6" 1911 pistols. Can anyone here verify that? I'm not sure what I have in the gun currently. Maybe the previous owned changed it to something lighter for some pet light load. I do have a brand new Wolff 14# spring and tried it out in the gun. Feels very similar, if not the same. But not positive.

So, now the real question. Having not shot it yet, and not wanting to damage anything, I am looking for a lighter loading for the 200 gr LSWC that will reliably cycle the slide. And lastly, if 14# is std for the Target Master, will firing factory ball ammo be too much for it? Or in other words, is the Target Master only for target loads? I have used 4.3 and 4.8 gr of WST and the 200 LSWC in my 5" guns. While not hot, both seem a bit stout for the very light feeling spring in the STI.



Thanks,

Ceapea

 

[LiveLife]

I found info that STI used 14# springs in their 6" 1911 pistols. Can anyone here verify that?

Since recoil spring could have been changed out, you need to measure the current recoil spring rate to be sure. You can measure recoil spring rate by pushing your slide muzzle end into a medicine bottle placed on bathroom scale.

FYI, here's more on 1911 recoil spring - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/recoil-spring-rate-affects-timing/99604

now the real question. Having not shot it yet, and not wanting to damage anything, I am looking for a lighter loading for the 200 gr LSWC that will reliably cycle the slide. And lastly, if 14# is std for the Target Master, will firing factory ball ammo be too much for it?

My reference 1911 target load is 200 gr LSWC with 4.8-5.0 gr of W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol.

My lighter target load is 200 gr LSWC with 4.0-4.2 gr of Red Dot/Promo. Very pleasant recoil and accurate load to shoot, even in compacts/subcompacts.

Here's 15/25 yard groups with Sig 1911 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...omo-reloading-range-test.578444/#post-9415802

I use 16 lb Wilson Combat/16.5 lb Wolff variable power recoil springs for target loads as they will gradually become 15+ lb spring.

If I am shooting a lot of factory/full power loads, new 16 lb recoil spring will work but I use 18.5 lb Wilson Combat recoil spring which tames felt recoil and muzzle flip.

If your recoil spring is 14 lbs, it should cycle the lighter 200 gr LSWC with 4.0-4.2 gr Red Dot/Promo loads but heaver target loads may increase the felt recoil and muzzle flip.

Here are some more lighter bullseye match target loads for your reference - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/loads-for-the-bullseye-shooter/99418

 

[Ceapea]

Thanks,
Very good info. I will try the bathroom scale trick. Though I forgot to mention, the springs (in STI and my new Wolff) are the same length and diameter. They are .043", if I remember correctly. Are you shooting 5" or 6"? I assume 5" since you mentioned a Sig. I was wondering if 14# is the standard/normal spring rate for a 6" gun, like a 16#-17# is for a 5" gun.

 

[Ceapea]

Very good reading, on those sites that you linked. Thanks again.

 

[LiveLife]

Though I forgot to mention, the springs (in STI and my new Wolff) are the same length and diameter.

As mentioned in the linked article, you cannot determine the recoil spring rate by length and why I suggested you use the bathroom scale method.

Yes, all the 1911s I have shot my target loads in are 5" (Kimber, RIA, SA, Sig).

 

[Galil5.56]

I found Clays combined with a Lee 200 grain SWC, or a #68 clone to be extremely accurate using mild charges. It is very bulky, and fills the case well. Very economical too, but can get peaky if pushed too hard. Metering could be better.

Here are some chronograph numbers I got from a 4.4" SIG P220, and a #68 clone.

4.2 gr Clays - CCI 300 - MC 200 SWC - WCC match cases
768, 795, 805, 767, 777, 811, 779, 778, 754, 791 Avg 782 ES 57 SD17

Very, very clean if that matters, and Clays works very well in .38 Special too, esp for WC loadings... But great care must be exercised, as your chronograph will see changes as little as .1 of a grain, and things can go very exponential in a hurry. Good luck with loading for that fine pistol.

 

[Texas10mm]

Light 200 gr SWC loads.

4.2 gr WST
4.3 gr Win 231
3.6 gr Clays
3.9 gr Ramshot Competition
3.5 gr Bullseye
4.0 gr Red Dot
4.0 gr IMR Red
4.0 gr IMR Target


Those are the ones I've loaded and shot in the past year or so.

 

[Blue68f100]

4.1-4.2 gr WST is what I use for my 200 gr LSWC BE loads. Only use the 200 gr for the long range (50 yrds). OAL is with the shoulder a thumbnail thickness (~0.030-0.040") over the mouth.

 

[Galil5.56]

Light 200 gr SWC loads.

4.2 gr WST
4.3 gr Win 231
3.6 gr Clays
3.9 gr Ramshot Competition
3.5 gr Bullseye
4.0 gr Red Dot
4.0 gr IMR Red
4.0 gr IMR Target


Those are the ones I've loaded and shot in the past year or so.

How happy are you with the Red, and Target? Do you have any chronograph numbers you can share. Thanks.

 

[Texas10mm]

I've been happy with both. No chronograph, sorry.

 

[Ceapea]

I forgot to post some pictures of the Target Masters. I found a 9mm TM a few weeks after the
45 TM.

 

[lordpaxman]

Showoff. I'm jealous! Very nice looking guns!

How happy are you with the Red, and Target? Do you have any chronograph numbers you can share.

4.0gr of IMR Red or Target are very light loads and below what I have as Hodgdon minimums. I've not loaded that low, but here's data for Bayou's 200 SWC to 1.245" and these numbers are out of a P220.
P220
200gr BB SWC, 3.8 Clays, 1.245 COL, Vel Avg 759
200gr BB SWC, 4.5 IMR Red, 1.245 COL, Vel Avg 761
200gr BB SWC, 4.8 IMR Target, 1.245 COL, Vel Avg 804
200gr BB SWC, 4.6 WST, 1.245 COL, Vel Avg 779

All are light loads not my major loads for this gun. Red and Target, like Clays, don't meter as well in my LNL, but I did a small mod that has them consistent enough for me. The published Target data is a bit hot for my gun and I'm still working that number down to a lighter load. Red and Target are "ok" for cleanliness, smoke and recoil. They are a bit more felt recoil than WST, and Clays (these are my notes to myself). I do favor WST but have the other load data in case of whatever happens in the future.

 

[LiveLife]

pictures of the Target Masters.

Nice!

4.0gr of IMR Red or Target are very light loads and below what I have as Hodgdon minimums.

I have found when using very light loads with faster burning powders, softer bullet helps to seal the high pressure gas.

Harder 20-24 BHN bullets won't deform/obturate well enough to seal the bullet base to the barrel with lighter target loads (which will leak gas around the bullet and affect chamber pressures) and I found softer 18 BHN to deform/obturate better to bump the bullet base in squishing the lube channel to form an "O" ring seal with the barrel.

With very light target loads like 4.0 gr Red Dot/Promo, softer 12 BHN bullets deform/obturate even better to produce accuracy.

So check the BHN of 200 gr SWC you are using.

MBC sells both 12 BHN (Bullseye #1) and 18 BHN (IDP #1) bullets with 5% THR discount (PM a member for discount code) - http://missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=2&category=5&secondary=13

Z-Cast sells 14-16 BHN bullets and they have worked well with my lighter target loads ($36/500 is a great price too) - https://www.jacobeagle.com/product-page/45-acp-200-grain-swc-500-count