21 Sharp, new rimfire cartridge.

[mcb]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/07/10/21-sharp-rimfire-cartridge-winchester/

The 21 Sharp appears to be a 22 LR using a smaller diameter projectile that is not heeled in.

I wonder if they considered what will happen if someone chambers a 22 Short in this new design?

 

[theotherwaldo]

Nothing much should happen, even if they put in a .22LR.
An increase in pressure and a swaged-down bullet should be all that occurs if the breech is properly designed.
Maybe a .22CB might get stuck, though... .

 

[jmorris]

I’ll pick one up as soon as I need a rifle or pistol I don’t want to be able to find ammunition for.

I take that back, I’d probably go for a WSSM first, at least I could reload them, once I found brass.

 

[mcb]

Nothing much should happen, even if they put in a .22LR.
An increase in pressure and a swaged-down bullet should be all that occurs if the breech is properly designed.
Maybe a .22CB might get stuck, though... .

What about all the blow back 22LR out there that could be converted to this cartridge? If with a fixed breach gun you get a low velocity 22 Short stuck in the barrel and then not realizing it load a 21 Sharp in behind it... Just seems not well thought out. Not sure its going to do anything that could not be done with CCI Stingers or other similar hyper velocity 22LR. Not Enough better to make it worth the change. Will be interesting to see how it is received.

 

[mcb]

I’ll pick one up as soon as I need a rifle or pistol I don’t want to be able to find ammunition for.

I take that back, I’d probably go for a WSSM first…

WSSM at least brings some interesting if niche performance. I am not sure 21 Sharp does anything that cannot be done with 22LR and/or 17 HM2.

 

[lightman]

I just don't see this cartridge going anyplace. We'll see................

 

[wayneinFL]

I checked the article to see if it had come out on 4/1. I was surprised.

 

[MacAR]

Seems like a solution in search of a problem to me...

If the 22LR won't cut it, then I personally go to a 22 Magnum. Having a "middle" cartridge doesn't really do that much for me. Now, if someone would come out with a .25 or .32 cartridge (rim or center fire) that would be suitable for squirrels, rabbits, and garden pests I'd be all for it. To be honest though, a rechambered rifle in 32 S&W would answer that purpose just fine. The 21 Sharp however, well, that don't interest me at all.

Mac

 

[WestKentucky]

I’m good with anything new and rimfire. Maybe somebody might go big and make some 32 rimfire again.

 

[tark]

This looks like the answer to a question that was never asked... the solution to a non existent problem !!! I seem to remember Remington trying this decades ago with a 5mm (20 cal) rimfire. How did that work out for em'?

 

[reddog81]

Norma makes a .22 LR zinc round that mirrors the listed performance of this new cartridge. It's a 24 grain projectile at 1706 FPS. A friend of mine bought some a few weeks back on sale.
.
I can't imagine Winchester thinks this new cartridge will take the market by storm. Maybe just someone in R&D having some fun??? With .22 ammo costing about $.05 a shot there is no way a new cartridge with similar performance can compete.

 

[mcb]

If Remington had not tried to make 5mm Remington Magnum Rimfire a proprietary cartridge (notice it is not in the SAAMI standards) we would me talking about 5mm Rem not 17 HMR. 5mm Remington was a pretty good little cartridge but Remington let it down by going the proprietary route. Killed my first groundhog many many moons ago with my dad's 5mm Remington.

I would love to see more rimfires it just this 21 Sharp seems like its trying to create a niche were one does not exist. I would love to see a 41 or 44 cal rimfire come back, but with smokeless powders.

 

[Jim Watson]

I doubt a .22 in a .21 will do anything exciting. There was once some enthusiasm over the Extruder, barrels that swaged .22 LR bullets down to smaller diameter for higher velocity a la Gerlich Squeeze Bore.

 

[mcb]

I doubt a .22 in a .21 will do anything exciting. There was once some enthusiasm over the Extruder, barrels that swaged .22 LR bullets down to smaller diameter for higher velocity a la Gerlich Squeeze Bore.

I think the 22 Short in a 21 Sharp is going to be more about damage to the gun than the shooter. A 22 Short lodged 2/3 rds of the way down the barrel is going to result in a bulged barrel if a high velocity 21 Sharps is fire in behind it.

 

[illinoisburt]

You just never know on these things but appears to underperform the 17 rimfires and we already have hypervelocity 22LRs available which match or exceed speed with heavier bullets.

 

[Mk-211]

So when are they going to make a rifle in .18, .19 and .20?

Give us .22 ammo back to normal amounts and price first. Then we can play around with a solution, looking for someone wanting a new caliber.

I would wait a good while before buying one. If it goes belly up, shooters will be left with a worthless rifle. If the barrel is easily replaced, you could get a .22 barrel for it.

 

[chicharrones]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/07/10/21-sharp-rimfire-cartridge-winchester/

The 21 Sharp appears to be a 22 LR using a smaller diameter projectile that is not heeled in.

I wonder if they considered what will happen if someone chambers a 22 Short in this new design?

I saw something in the comments referring to California needing a lead free alternative to .22 LR?

Hmmm.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Smells like another Remington E-Tronics!...... smdh

 

[mcb]

I saw something in the comments referring to California needing a lead free alternative to .22 LR?

Hmmm.

That is an aspect I had not thought about.

 

[mcb]

Smells like another Remington E-Tronics!...... smdh

Got to disagree with you on this one. Electronic ignition brings huge advantages to firearms. Electrically primed ammo has been utilize in larger caliber weapons going back to WWII. There are a lot of design improvements that could be done with firearm designs that are much harder and even impossible with percussion primed cartridges. Remington EtronX never fully took advantages of that to avoid entanglement with NFA issues. A self loading electrically primed firearm goes from semi-auto to full auto with a change of firm/soft-ware and that opens up a huge can of worms Remington was not ready to fight for.

 

[Dudedog]

I saw something in the comments referring to California needing a lead free alternative to .22 LR?

This is the only way it makes any sense to me.
Non lead heeled bullets don't seem to work out as well as they hoped so maybe this is the solution.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Interesting,but CCI stingers are close in performance.

 

[Riomouse911]

This is the only way it makes any sense to me.
Non lead heeled bullets don't seem to work out as well as they hoped so maybe this is the solution.

I just buy the copper .22 LR/WMR if I am in a lead free situation. They do enough to put a rabbit or squirrel in the pot if I do my part.

This looks like a R&D project just to see what the response is. My response is, “Meh.”

Stay safe.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Got to disagree with you on this one. Electronic ignition brings huge advantages to firearms. Electrically primed ammo has been utilize in larger caliber weapons going back to WWII. There are a lot of design improvements that could be done with firearm designs that are much harder and even impossible with percussion primed cartridges. Remington EtronX never fully took advantages of that to avoid entanglement with NFA issues. A self loading electrically primed firearm goes from semi-auto to full auto with a change of firm/soft-ware and that opens up a huge can of worms Remington was not ready to fight for.

lol, no..... no no fantasy we're talking small arms and not wwII and machinations on bureaucratic dancing. IT's a boondoggle idea that has no market chance. Only thing said so far that has merit: statements on bullet / projectile make-up.

 

[mcb]

lol, no..... no no fantasy we're talking small arms and not wwII and machinations on bureaucratic dancing. IT's a boondoggle idea that has no market chance.

Imagine what you could do with a semi-auto pistol without the need for a trigger bar wrapping around a magazine. With no striker or hammer and mechanical disconnector you could recess slide mounted optics deeper into the back of the slide. A double action revolver with no hammer spring to fight. A bull pup rifle with a trigger on par if not better than traditional configurations. Dynamically variable rates of fire on combat rifles and light machineguns. Just to name a few.