22 auto-loader as defense weapon

[T.R.]

Years ago, I knew a man who survived the Detroit race riots. He was a white kid living with his single Mom (Dad died in Viet Nam) in a "dark" neighborhood. Several colored men broke in the front door and the Mom grabbed my buddy and locked herself in her bedroom. There she retrieved her loaded 22 auto-loader rifle and called the Police.

While on the phone with a dispatcher, the looters broke down her bedroom door. She aimed her rifle and shot the first man in the mouth and the second man in the center of the chest. They all turned tail and ran out the front door.

The chest shot man collapsed died on the front lawn. The Police arrived and took this frightened woman and her son away from the growing crowd of rioters. That night, this home was burned to the ground.

The man who was shot in the mouth was arrested at a hospital. The tiny bullet had knocked out several teeth, tore his tongue beyond repair, and destroyed a nerve in his face which caused permanent facial paralysis. This bad guy was returned to prison for B & E as a parole violation.

Is the 22 auto-loader rifle the perfect defense weapon? No. But it is nothing to sneeze at, especially when the shooter has practised to shoot quickly and accurately.
TR

 

[CTD99]

Well, it can be lethal, but stopping power as your post says is pretty weak. A rifle to me is not a good self defense weapon either. Too easy for the perp to grab the barrel.

Not a good 1st choice in my book, but if it all you have you bet!

 

[weregunner]

Carbines of any caliber can make good self defense weapons under ceertain conditions.Some jurisdictions ban hand guns.Pistol caliber carbines have limited recoil and muzzle blast.The longer tube gives more velocity to the bullet.Expansion of hollwpoints seems to be insured more.Twentytwos wouldn't be my first choice.Then again it worked.Shot guns are ok but training with them would be more intensive . Recoil is a big factor.Handguns would be my first choice, but that's my pick.There are more pro and cons coming.I'll let somebody take it from here.

 

[Technosavant]

.22 works as a defensive weapon against one particular kind of criminal: The one who does not wish to be shot. If the assailant does not wish to be shot, then even a .22 revolver will deter them. If the assailant (as in the story) is shot once and does not wish it to happen again, it will likewise deter them.

If the assailant doesn't care, has no regard for his own life, or is just drugged up, then the .22 is not going to stop him (barring a pretty fortuitous hit to some parts of the brain or some other location that brings instant incapacitation).

Nobody ever says that the .22 won't work for self defense at times. However, it is said, and rightly so, that the .22 will usually not end a fight right there- it didn't in that particular case. Had those two kept coming, they might have caused harm to the mother and son (although one assailant would have died, as he did in the yard). They just didn't want to be shot (again).

 

[ChristopherG]

The mighty .22 may not be as potent as some, but I would be willing to consider finding a place for it in an arsenal, except for one thing.

No rimfire is as reliable as any good centerfire IME. They just misfire too often, and that makes it a no-go as a defensive weapon, to me, if there is any choice about it.

Well, there's also potential feed issues, I 'spose, as there are with any rimmed cartridge in a magazine-fed weapon. But even if you solve those, you still have an unacceptable ratio of clicks to bangs.

 

[Cousin Mike]

1.) There's already a thread here about .22lr for SD - I won't re-state my feelings on the issue here as the other thread is still up & running.

2.) "dark" neighborhood? Wow... I think I just got racially slurred.

C'mon man... Doesn't take much common sense to figure out that might offend some folks. What's wrong with just saying that the kid lived in a black neighborhood? The latter is SO much less condescending.

"Colored" is also a nice addition... Reading this sorta made me feel like I was born 60 years ago. Oh, by the way... I live in a predominately Jewish neighborhood... Got any cute names for my neighbors?

 

[22-rimfire]

Ok, TR you posted a nice historical personal account of the Detroit race riots. If you want to use a 22 rifle or handgun for home defense, go ahead. A 22 is one of the firearms that remains loaded in my house. I would not hesitate to use a 22 rifle for home defense if I didn't have anything else bigger handy.

I won't rehash the arguments for and against using a 22 for home defense. Like people interested in politics, they have already made their minds up.

Like most things, you use what you have. I certainly would not have wanted to be any of the rioters that broke into that house, 22 or not. Breaking into a home means you have disregarded your personal safety and I totally support the defense of one's home against intruders. They deserved what they got. I can't imagine that there would be much rioting if the rioters routinely came up against armed citizens willing to use their firearms against them. The period of rioting is one of the events that triggered a lot of citizens to acquire and keep firearms in their home for defensive purposes.

You will notice that the house was burnt down after the police removed the woman and child. It takes people with back bone to change things; and yes, there are risks.

 

[foghornl]

Not my first choice for emergency self/home defense, but if my MKII Ruger was in hand when "Vigoro Strikes MixMaster"......well sometimes ya gotta run whatcha brung.

But I would use it untill threat ceased, or I got to some heavier artillery.

 

[Frandy]

Hey, Cousin Mike: +1

is right!

Anyone wanna call this American of Italian heritage an epithet. Nah, don't bother. I know 'em all.

Oh, on topic. Yup, the .22 worked, but I wouldn't count on it as my first choice....or even third.

 

[Ala Dan]

Well, if my Browning Buckmark is all I could get too (and it was loaded)-
HELL yeah I would blast away in hopes that the BG either runs away
or ceases too exist at my feet~!

 

[Soybomb]

I wouldn't want to get shot with a sling shot either, but I won't defend it as being a good self defense option when so many better options are available.

 

[mp510]

Israeli Air Marshals carry Beretta .22LR pistols, and are trained to shoot for the head.In Viet Nam SOG operators used Hi Standard suppressed pistols during snatch and grabs for eliminating sentries. However, they also had problematic stopping power and often took numerous shots. The .380 gave a much better compromise between silence and stopping power.

If we recall the recent shooting in OH, that girl was hurt pretty bad, and the shooter was using a .22.

 

[TimboKhan]

I don't want to be Mr. Jerky McJerkalot, but do we really need another thread dedicated to this topic?

 

[10-Ring]

I wouldn't be my first choice, but I too knew someone who used a 22lr in a life and death situation. She is older w/ relatively weak hands so the 22 wheelgun is ideal. She's tried others but this one just fits her needs and works w/ her physical limitations.

 

[JohnKSa]

.22 works as a defensive weapon against one particular kind of criminal: The one who does not wish to be shot. If the assailant does not wish to be shot, then even a .22 revolver will deter them. If the assailant (as in the story) is shot once and does not wish it to happen again, it will likewise deter them.

Fortunately, this "particular kind of criminal" makes up well over 90% of criminals according to recent studies.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know of anybody but Paris Theodore and Jeff Cooper to recommend a .22 for self defense. Yup, Mr 1911 himself.

 

[harvester of sorrow]

Yup, Mr 1911 himself.

I've only heard him recommend it for people who are physically incapable of operating a larger, more powerful pistol. He also says that if someone is going to carry a .22, they should be able to hit bottle caps with it and shoot for the eye to use what power the round does have to best effect.

 

[TimboKhan]

Jeff Cooper does NOT recommend a .22 for defense. He says that it works if you can put the bullet up the goblins tear duct. Saying that it would work and recommending it are sort of two different things.

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, the specific item I recall from Jeff Cooper was when he said a .22 would be an acceptable defense weapon if you could hit a tennis ball from anywhere on the court. He used to do a column in Guns & Ammo back when it was more than a monthly collection of press releases and you might be surprised what he would recommend for specific uses and users.

 

[RedAlert]

On the topic of .22 cal

Gents, some years ago there was a .22 pistol or maybe even a stubby carbine that used what looked like a bundle of soda straws on top of the weapon as a magazine that contained 100 rounds, if memory serves me.

Using such a gun, and rapidly pulling a trigger would certainly provide a swarm of little lead bees that would discourage an intruder.

Can anyone provide a link to this weapon, I'd like to revisit it?

TIA

RDF

 

[teddybear]

Aw shucks, 22s work fine.


http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0060828&cimg=0

 

[AJAX22]

You're talking about a calico pistol or rifle


http://mem.tcon.net/users/5010/5491/m-110.htm

they rock,

I want one.

 

[Jim Watson]

Calico.
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm

I think there was a semiauto version of the American 180
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg62-e.htm

 

[B.D. Turner]

Four years ago an 86 year old widow here had a male hispanic breaking down her door on a home invasion robbery in the middle of the day. She shot him one time in the forehead. He crumpled to the floor and never took another breath according to her statement. The other suspects left the scene as soon as she fired the shot according to witnesses next door.

I have seen .22 fail to penetrate the skull several times but after they go under the skin they continue to travel around the head between the meat and the skull. Swelling is always severe.
While the .22 is not my weapon of choice when things go bump in the night sometimes you have to use what you got.

 

[TimboKhan]

I certainly don't have the issue of G&A in front of me where he made the tear duct comment, but I distinctly remember the phrase "putting it up the goblins tear duct", or at least close to that, since my grammar is nowhere near as good as the Colonels. At the same time, I have no doubts about him saying the thing about the tennis ball. Hell, it makes sense.

He used to do a column in Guns & Ammo back when it was more than a monthly collection of press releases

Boy, your not kidding about that.... I haven't purchased a G&A in a couple of years, although I did just buy the MilSurp special edition because I love all things MilSurp.