.22 bolt guns

[benzy2]

The problem is he is looking for 1/2 MOA, not 1 MOA. He's shooting an ARA target, which at 50 yards requires just over 1/2 MOA to clean the card.

As for POI changes from bull to bull, it really depends on your setup. Using cheap bags and rest with no consistency or concern for rifle handling, POI can be all over the place, at least relative to the size of the ARA target. Get good rest that can do both windage and the fine elevation changes along with a quality rear bag, not near the issue. Rimfire competitions often allow one piece rests. You can spend as much on a rest as you can a top end rifle. To shoot consistently great scores is expensive, even if you are using Wolf. On the other hand, grabbing a Caldwell Rock BR and a Protector rear bag will get you on the line around $200 and should work well enough for all but the most serious shooters. It really depends how far you want to go.

 

[Pete D.]

.22

A couple of ideas that apply.....if you want .5 inch at 100 yards - as has been pointed out, that is one half a minute of angle. Understand that that is four times smaller than a one inch group.
Multiple targets - NRA Smallbore prone matches use the A-25 target at 100 yards. It has three bulls on it....the top bull is a sighter and the two record bulls are below. The whole affair is longer than three feet. I have not found an adjustment needed. What would be the point of the sighter if I had to change my adjustment for the next two targets?
In Smallbore prone competition - a 240 shot match - the shooting is amazingly precise - with metallic sights and not from a bench. The winning score at the National Championships at Camp Perry last year was 2396/2400 for the metallic sight match (for the any sight match - scopes - it was only one point better). Ten shot groups at one inch or better are commonplace - in fact, if a shooter cannot do that a lot more than often, they are an also ran.
The most common rifles are Anschutz - far and away the most common.
Pete

 

[Maverick223]

CZ 452 or Savage Mk.II are both outstanding little bolt rifles for the money. FWIW I plan to add a Savage 93R17TR (the .17HMR version of the rifle mentioned in the OP) to the stable in the near future (probably within a week).

That said, my little 10/22 custom does pretty well. FWIW I have it outfitted with a Fajen fully adjustable stock (ugly, but comfy and stable), a Tactical Solutions lightweight bbl, and a tuned trigger and can eek out 0.5-1.0MOA at 50yds on average IF I use good ammo (which means RWS Rifle Match for me, but I haven't yet tried Wolf). Federal bulk ain't getting the job done, not for me and my rifles...not for anyone that I know of either. That isn't to say that there isn't a mysterious uber-rifle out there somewhere that can't accomplish the feat, but i'd not count on it any more than a distant wealthy relative naming me sole heir to their estate.

 

[TonyAngel]

benzy2, thanks for all of the info. I guess I'll have to set aside a budget for a rest setup. All I usually use is a cheapie sandbag and rear rest. I don't have much invested because I usually do most of my shooting from a prone position using a bipod and squeeze bag. I'm going to look into that rig that you mentioned. They sell it at my local range for under $200. I just never gave it much thought.

 

[Averageman]

Zastava used to sell a sweet bolt action through Charles Daley.
I found one of these at my local dealer for $50....amazing little gun and a great trainer

 

[CraigC]

But are we really talking about competing on a national level?

Tony, I really think you would see a significant improvement with a better barrel than the A&B. Which would be FAR less expensive than a new rifle. Any rifle. Consider a Clark, Shilen, KID or Lilja if you're serious, which will still be less than that Savage MKII TR. Clark and KID both use Lothar Walther blanks. I went with Clark because I wanted the mid-weight contour. Clark and KID will run up to ~$200, Shilen up to $300. The Lilja will cost you over $400 but it is the best barrel on the market.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com

http://www.coolguyguns.com

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=632305

 

[Pete D.]

none?

No one at the ARA Nationals uses an Anshcutz.

Well....almost no one. There were three at the Indoor Nationals in 12/2010 in the top 50.
Mostly Turbo actions.
Pete

 

[Maverick223]

Or maybe I just stink at it.

I think you nailed it...


...now what does it mean if I regularly score less than you in the rimfire match?

 

[Maverick223]

Hehehe. Good answer.

 

[Maverick223]

Not for me my friend. Not for me.

I doubt it...as much as I like a good Savage they aren't a competition grade target rimfire, at least not with the stock bbl anyway. Seeing some of your groups, I am certain that you'd benefit from a good target rifle. Unfortunately I haven't the funds (or the desire to part with said funds) to invest in a proper competition grade .22LR, at least not yet. If, and when, I get ready to plunk down the cash for one I think it might be one of those nifty RAA Biathlons...which depending upon budget might be a good rifle for the OP as well.

 

[Pete D.]

oops

Jeff: I was unclear in my post about the indoor Nationals. I meant to say that there were three Anschutz rifles in the top 50 and that the most common action on the list that I saw was the Turbo. The top six places were all taken by Turbo actions. Twenty-one of the top 50 were Turbos.

For an affordable .22 bolt gun....The CZ has been getting glowing reports since its introduction.
Pete

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah guys, I'm just looking to shoot a local match and am really looking for 50 yard accuracy. I'm just so up in the air about it now. What's really holding me back is two things. The first I that I'd really like to keep this second .308 that I got my hands on, but I'd have to sell it to get an Anschutz. The second thing is that I really like this 10/22 and would LOVE to get it to shoot well.

The only thing about trying anything more with the 10/22 is that I don't want to start shoveling into a money pit. Maybe the A&B barrel wasn't such a good idea and I really don't mind rolling the dice on a Kidd barrel. I just don't know that the Kidd will be enough.

What I think I'm going to do is just get the Kidd barrel and take the first step, which is to quit overthinking it and just start shooting. In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes open for a used Remington or Anschutz at the range. That way, I'll be able to shoot it before I buy it.

 

[45crittergitter]

Send your 10/22 to Clark Custom guns for accurizing.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

I'll be the odd oen here, and suggest you find yourself a old Winchester Model 67.
Single shot, bolt action.

Long barrels, good gun.. probably the most accurate .22 out there.. and it handles ALL .22 varieties.. shorts.. longs.. lr.. stingers.. yup.

Plus, you can find em in top condition for around $100.

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah, I've gotta keep some perspective here. I'm not planning on running around the country shooting in rimfire matches. It's just that many of the guys that shoot my local match are the types that travel out of state to shoot rimfire and they are bringing some serious hardware. I've spoken to some of them and their biggest gripe (if you can call it that) is that they have to shoot the Wolf ammo. Limiting the type of ammo was a good call on the part of the range owner to level the playing field.

I just want to get something that will keep me competitive. Still, I do have to admit that there is a part of me, deep down, that would love to be able to do it with a 10/22, just because everyone is telling me that it can't be done.

 

[ol' scratch]

What about a Kimber Model 82 Government?

Great rifle and has the accuracy you are looking for at those ranges. It is a match grade .22 for $400 through the CMP. It has a heavy Wilson match grade barrel, adjustable trigger, and great iron sights.

 

[WNTFW]

So are these matches at Nick's in Garyville or over in Mississippi?

 

[TonyAngel]

It's the one at Nick's in Garyville.

I did go over to rimfirecentral and what I read over there lead me to go ahead and get the adams & bennet barrel. My next try is going to be a kidd barrel.

I'll likely just wind up shooting anything that I have when I can. Since I developed an interest in doing this, I've missed every match. With the boy scouts, track and other stuff that my son is into these days, he's had me running the last five or six weeks. Now it's looking like I won't be able to make this Saturday either. My wife got us tickets to go see Tony Bennett, so there goes the weekend.

 

[kludge]

Shooting MOA with a .22LR at 100 yards with Match ammo in perfect conditions is elusive. Anyone doing it out of doors with bulk Federal is a lying SOB.

MOA at 50yd with bulk? Fine, show me the target. At 100, even if you showed me the target I wouldn't believe you. Once? Yes I might believe you. Consistently? No way.

MOA and sub-MOA at 50 yards is not a problem. Average 5-shot groups are 0.3" to 0.5" with match ammo (regardless of the brand) from my Savage Mark II BV and 24x scope.

I've shot exactly one sub 0.2" 3-shot group at 50 yards, I don't have the proper equipment to measure groups that small. All I have is calipers and I'm "guessing" it was between 0.06" and 0.16"

 

[afponiky]

Ok guys, this is just MY THOUGHTS.........


You will not get a SEMI (10-22) to shoot as good and consistent as a bolt rifle.

I don't care how much money you have in a 10-22 the bolt rifle will out shoot it.


Those thoughts may not agree with everyone, but that is what I believe.

So be it...

"Flame suit on"

That is why I'm looking for a good bolt rifle myself.


GRP

 

[CraigC]

MOA at 50yd with bulk? Fine, show me the target.

See post #16.

I don't care how much money you have in a 10-22 the bolt rifle will out shoot it.

That depends entirely on the bolt rifle in question. It will typically cost you more to get there but it would be folly to believe that any old $200 boltgun will outshoot a 10/22 with a premium barrel.

 

[Sako Shooter]

What I have found is that increased accuracy is often proportional to money spent. There are exceptions. CZs and Savages can be made to shoot .3 -.5inch at 50 yards regularly without much invested. You have to ask if that is good enough though.

If you want a "consistent" 1/2MOA rifle (or less) you will have to pay for it probably. Then even that it not guaranteed. If you locate a gun that can shoot that well and is inexpensive, please let me know so we can work out a deal. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying they are rare in my neck of the woods.

There is some truth to the saying "It's not the arrow but the Indian." However, you reach a point where you max out a rifle's capabilities and most fall short of 1/2MOA accuracy (consistently) unless some bucks are invested in my experience.

 

[benzy2]

The other thing to consider is that the ammo used has to be Wolf. While certainly good ammo, it isn't the ammo most guys are using in their rifles when they shoot a consistent 1/2 MOA. It throws more fliers and tends not to hold quite as small of an average even ignoring the fliers. At some point, even a top shooter is going to drop some points due to the ammo.

 

[Sako Shooter]

I would hold on to the Marlin for a long time then.

 

[Caddisflied]

I was lucky enough to get a great deal on an old Anschutz last winter.
Jeff56 and Benzy2 could both shoot better groups with it than I can
(and many others here probably could too), but the rifle isn't immune to shooting flyers.
I want to try the Wolf ammo in it, but it was 'out of stock' when I placed my last order.

The 'flyer' problem seems to be widespread, I hope it's an ammunition thing.
One experienced shooter I spoke with suggested the lubricant used on some of the more expensive ammunition
can build up and that flyers are caused when a round clears the buildup out the barrel?