.22 for my little man: Savage Rascal or cut down the stock of my 10/22?

[Mn Fats]

Someone here...wonder who it could be...once noted that if you would not trust a person with a semi-auto, the same level of trust should be bestowed on them with a single-shot (I’m paraphrasing).

Trust? If I shoot with anyone, kid or adult, then that means I trust them regardless of the type of gun or how it operates. I'm just saying I've noticed first hand that kids today seem to want more instant gratification and semi autos achieve that quicker than taking a little time with a bolt action or my Springfield single shot, so accuracy can suffer.

This has been my observation. That's all.

 

[wombat13]

I don't know if this helps, but I think I may still have a spare 10/22 stock or two around you could have for postage. I'll have to rummage to be sure. PM me if interested and I'll see what's still in my attic.

Thanks so much for the offer. I already purchased a youth stock (Wood Plus brand from Brownell's) with 11-1/4" LOP. I'm going to give that a try. I'll keep your offer in mind if that doesn't work out.

 

[Howland937]

I'm trying to find where it's written law that a semi-auto mag has to be full before a kid is able to shoot it. I bet a lot of us learned on what we were given because that's all we had. Single shot rifle? Shotgun? Yep. Not because my dad thought they were better to learn on, but because that's what he could afford to give me. And my older brother. And my younger brother.

If better options are available, there's not a thing wrong with a kid learning on a semi-auto. As long as they know they're responsible for every shot they put through it. If it bothers ya, load one at a time.

 

[webrx]

I taught many young children with a single shot Cricket rifle. With a scope and a single shot Rossi .22/410 with sights.

mince they had the fundamentals you could hand them a value pack and watch them shoot spinners for an hour. One shot at a time.

they all seemed to like laying in a shooting mat with a front bag. So they could be snipers.

 

[Varminterror]

My statement is based off teaching my son's friends how to shoot, it's just something I've witnessed.

My statements are based off of teaching a couple hundred new shooters over the last 20yrs instructing, including dozens of kids from 2-18yoa, with an overwhelming majority starting on semiautos. I bought a dozen Crickets with a couple partners several years ago for use in our Hunter Safety, 4H, and youth rifle programs; purchased with the same bad logic the old generation held. We watched undisciplined kids waste ammo into the dirt by rushing shots with those single shot rifles, just as often as I watched teens and adults rush shots into the dirt with semiautos. My partner asked - “why in the hell did we waste money on single shot mini rifles, when we start the same people with Ruger Mark II’s and Browning Buckmarks in the handgun pit?”

Bluntly, your friend’s kid must not have been taught much discipline if they wouldn’t follow command to fire only on target, OR your teaching paradigm didn’t establish discipline with consequences for bad behavior. If a shooter has the consequence of being excused from the class/range for having their finger on a trigger when they shouldn’t be on trigger or for rushing shots into the dirt, they learn discipline.

If an undisciplined shooter has a single shot rifle such they can’t rush more than one shot into the dirt, that isn’t discipline, it’s inconvenience.

It’s also pretty simple to turn a semi-auto into a single shot. Like putting parental controls on a TV, or a governor on a car - only load one round at a time…

But here’s a 3 year old shooting a semiauto, competently and with discipline. He was practicing transitions between two targets, back and forth between left and right. Rushing the trigger meant the game was over, well established when he was 2yrs old - so guess what… he didn’t rush the shots then, and doesn’t now, 6yrs later, any more than anyone else.

 

[Varminterror]

kids today seem to want more instant gratification

Kids are what their parents and mentors make them. If you raised your kid to expect instant gratification, that’s your own baggage for failing to establish durability in your kids.

 

[AJC1]

10-22 takeoffs are a dime a dozen. You might even find here if you post a wtb add. Most likely get a pif offer or just cover shipping.

 

[12Bravo20]

I started both of my kids with an old single shot Savage/Stevens Model 15 with a cut down stock. I also have a full size stock for it for bigger kids and adults. Yes I am old school and start new shooters off with a single shot. It is easier for them to concentrate on the basics that way.

Red dots are nice to use with new shooters since all they have to concentrate on is the dot and the target. One they have the basics down, they can then work on using iron sights and high power scopes.

Each child is different and you have to judge each one separately, what works for one child might not work for the next child. The main thing is to teach safety and basic marksmanship.

 

[jmorris]

They don’t stay small for long. It’s bad enough to have to replace clothes and shoes as they grow, I don’t need other stuff I have no use for.

Not to mention, they will likely want to emulate you and will probably still be too small for a full sized rifle when they no longer want to play with that “kid” rifle you bought just for them.

 

[Skylerbone]

I'm just saying I've noticed first hand that kids today seem to want more instant gratification and semi autos achieve that quicker than taking a little time with a bolt action or my Springfield single shot, so accuracy can suffer.

Have you failed to notice the desire for instant gratification in adults as well? Perhaps even in yourself? I’m guilty, with the intellectual honesty to voice it; I want what I want now! That does not mean my accuracy suffers however, no causality between the two.

Could be I’m unique in having the pleasure of teaching multiple children to shoot on the same timeline and so what solidified their resolve was posting a better target than their siblings.

I’ve also been fortunate enough to own dozens of rimfire and dozens of centerfire rifles from lever to auto loader to bolt action mag fed to single-shot such that no single style became boringly routine. Boredom induced by tedious task will kill desire in a young shooter far faster than poor marksmanship.

 

[someguy2800]

I'm actually looking forward to my daughters outgrowing their rascal so I can officially claim it as my own because I really enjoy plinking with it.



My daughter actually likes the tactile experience of working the action and pulling the case out and stacking it neatly on the bench and picking a new one out of the box. She will sit on the bench and shoot 100 rounds and ask for more. I was the same way when I was a kid and still am, I'm more interested in the firearm than the shooting.

 

[Mn Fats]

Kids are what their parents and mentors make them. If you raised your kid to expect instant gratification, that’s your own baggage for failing to establish durability in your kids.

Haha. Damn man. Take it easy.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I started on a single shot rifle. It made me appreciate making my shots count. I was more careful with my ammo usage because it took so long to reload. To this day I still like to use a single shot rifle when I want to go to the range and not be in a hurry. I suggest starting with the Savage Rascal.

 

[Mn Fats]

I started on a single shot rifle. It made me appreciate making my shots count. I was more careful with my ammo usage because it took so long to reload. To this day I still like to use a single shot rifle when I want to go to the range and not be in a hurry. I suggest starting with the Savage Rascal.

Careful now. Some above posters might attack that observation.

 

[Skylerbone]

What was attacked, as I read it, were ideas related to magazines leading to bad habits, poor shooting, wasted ammo, and unsafe conditions. None of the opposition specifically related to single-shot rifles, and the OP asked after a children’s sized rifle which several of us have concluded to be a dead end. At least my Cub can be added to an full size stock thanks to its E-Series receiver and it is every bit an adult rifle excepting barrel contour and stock length.

 

[Varminterror]

What I actually find to be most disqualifying about the Cricket and Rascal is the LOP is still typically about appropriate for an ~11yr old… most folks are buying these rifles to introduce 5-8yr old kids to shooting, which typically need 9-10” LOP, but these are sold at 11.25”-11.5”… no idea how or why they would come up with the idea to build specialty youth models with LOP’s which are still too long for their target market.

 

[d2wing]

You can teach a small child to shoot a larger rifle but if it is too big you cannot teach proper form. I started my trainees on air pistols to teach proper sight alignment and trigger control, then appropriately sized air rifles to teach form and classic shooting positions. If you let them shoot from a bench supported it's a good experience and has value but that's not teaching to shoot a rifle properly.
Back in the day Daisy made .22LR training rifles with adjustable stocks. A good idea that too bad no one else does except for AR's. The Daisy was very cheaply made, mostly plastic but had some good ideas.

 

[AJC1]

A modern chassis system is ideal because is is almost infinitely adjustable. The system itself is more expensive than the entire gun, but may grow with your child and can evolve through adult sizes. Definitely not the cheap option

 

[Buzznrose]

I bought this gun to start my two grandkids out shooting on. As the oldest is only 17 months, I haven’t yet begun the training so cannot report on success.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/henry-youth-lever-action-rimfire-rifle

I brought it out to shoot with some friends, and they all loved it! It may have a short length of pull, but even my 6’3 friend said it was easy to shoot and comfortable. Another guy said it would be a great hiking gun as it is easy to shoot and very light, so it’s a keeper.

Long term plan is to have a variety of .22 LR firearms for them to learn on, including a bolt, lever action, and semiautomatic rifles in addition to semiautomatic pistols and revolvers.

I personally don’t see a need for a single shot rifle, but that’s just me

 

[Buzznrose]

I didn’t have any firearms as a kid, but had friends that did. Several had single shot long guns, .22’s, .410/20 gauges.

They used to take them when we’d go beating around in the bush…shooting cans, tree stumps, etc. Ammo was doled out sparingly by a parent. Not much supervision otherwise for us.

I think the advantages of the single shot was the ammo savings, weight, and the fact that it just seemed “safer” (it wasn’t).

But again, little parent supervision was happening. A different era for sure, at least for me.

If I were in a situation where I might let a 10 year old out on their own to shoot barn rats or ground hogs, I would probably consider a single shot…not sure.

But as my intent is to supervise all range sessions for the foreseeable future, I control the ammo flow and gun handling, and thus will use repeating arms for now.

 

[22250Rem]

I'm actually looking forward to my daughters outgrowing their rascal so I can officially claim it as my own because I really enjoy plinking with it.

............ I bought my Rascal for the step-granddaughters to use; the older one already outgrew it and the younger one will start learning on it this coming spring. When she outgrows it I'm keeping it for myself. Love that Accutrigger and aperture sight.

 

[Demi-human]

When she outgrows it I'm keeping it for myself. Love that Accutrigger and aperture sight.

I have a red one, I mean, my Little Bear has one. We both like it so much, I probably won’t get to have it.
We stand facing each other. I shoot left handed and we pass the rifle back and forth. Curiously, using the best trigger of all my rimfire rifles. Talking. Looking at stuff. Literally enjoying Heaven, he just doesn’t know it yet.

He is now almost too big for it. Both of my kids grew right through it before even breaking it in.
Mini Amazon doesn’t like to shoot it now, she a 5’5” twelve year old.
It’s novelty is lost on her.

I agree with @AJC1, there should be a youth rifle kit. Not just one stock, and a single shot rifle.
I’d like to see something like a MarkII Savage with a 16” barrel that is thinner than the FV and tapered, but not so thin as the Rascal is now, a shorty stock for the tinier kids with a built in single load sled, and a modular youth sized stock with magazine. These barreled actions could then be set into an adult sized stock if wanted. So now the rifle grows with the child, starting at the earliest, and can be made adult sized for the sentimental.
It should all come in a fitted kit, so the willing but uninitiate parents don’t get lost trying to find stocks that will work. Nor discouraged at the useless rifle they just bought two years ago.

We riflemiesters do all that now, but having it all marketed in a blister pack is what the less mechanically inclined need.

 

[someguy2800]

I get that as kids get older they don't want to shoot a "little kids rifle" anymore, but I do kind of smirk when people say their kid has outgrown their rascal or chipmunk. I'm 35 years old and 6'4" and I haven't outgrown it. Don't think I ever will.

 

[adcoch1]

I'd cut down the 10-22 like you plan and see how it works. Load a few rounds at a time if it makes you more comfortable, but varminterror is dead right about discipline, train the kid, in small doses, and they will act right no matter what they're holding. I do have a cricket for the little ones, but me and my 10 yr old are the only ones to shoot it so far. We are both too big for it.

 

[Grug Crood]

A cheap single shot with iron sights is what I would recommend. Kids have good eyesight and don't need a scope or red dot. My Boy Scout troop introduced us to shooting with single shots and it set us "on fire" to attain better scores and more practice. One night/week at a YMCA was the main thing we all looked forward to when we were 11 y.o.

BINGO

Either the 10/22 with original stock and no scope (iron sights at that age are perfect), or bid and work through any youth model single shot off Gunbroker. With the 10/22 I'd expect accuracy to suffer due to picking up dirt in the action and magazine, but with a bolt action many will shoot forever even without proper cleaning habits (no offense, but it happens).

As a bonus, it teaches more meticulous shot placement. With a bolt action there is no follow up shot if you miss when your target is of the "uncooperative kind".