22 lr Stinger or Velocitor for Home-Defense?

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A used 12 gauge would have inexpensive and more dependable, IMHO.

.22 would is pretty good, i suppose, if you're attacked be a gang of squirrels.
I'll give you the link to the article, but you're going to be pretty disappointed. Amazingly, only one person died that night. When I called police at 11:00 pm to find out what was going on, they told me they already had 3 people shot and 3 people in custody, but there were many more still on the streets. They told me to stay indoors. I took it a step further and resorted to what I had done in Turkey when the air-raid sirens went off. I turned out all the lights, drew the curtains, and lit candles.

The article was only interested in helping police discover who killed the person who died. Unfortunately, Jacksonville is the number 1 murder capital in Florida so murders don't get a lot of attention in this town. The news does a whole lot to down-play them in order to hide the fact that there are so many. It's not like a murder is anything new to those of us who live here. So if it's not out of the ordinary, it's not news! Anyway, here is the article if you are really interested:

Sounds like you need a shotgun NOW :what:

Why the need for a fancy defense gun just because it's "cool" :rolleyes: If you can't afford the 590, just go with a used Mossberg 500. They start out about $140 used at gun shops.

Might also look into the Maverick 88, which is basically an economy Mossberg 500 with plastic stock and some minor downgrades. Most sporting goods chains have the Maverick 88 with 18.5" defender barrel for about $160 new.
There's certainly not a lot of indication from that "news story" what was going on in the area.

RickyD, you need to get someone to get you up to speed on a riot gun as soon as you can manage it. You have one in mind already from what you've said here and IMO it's a good choice, but you need to have the skillset to use it effectively as soon as you get it reassembled after its first-thing-out-of-the-box cleaning (and yes, they do need a good cleaning right out of the box to get the gunk off them/out of them the factory coats them with for protection while shipping). Maybe there's a fellow THR member in the area who can help you get started if you need help, or perhaps you have a friend or family member you could ask.

And just as soon as you can, you need to get yourself and your new gun out to the range, where you can begin running rounds through it. You need to learn what loads it likes best and how it performs at different ranges. You should have a selection of a few rounds of several different buckshot and slug loads to test eventually, and some light birdshot loads of good quality to start out learning with if you're new to shotgunning.

Meanwhile stay safe,

A man who can shoot a 22 rifle can easily turn a crowd. The 22lr is way underrated. You have a mob and the only thing you have is a 22 rifle and the confidence to shoot it you are going to wreak havoc and lots of it. No loud boom to turn the crowd but you will see alot of stinging and hurting going on. That 22 rifle will probably kill more during a situation he encountered than a shotgun would. Granted a shotgun will stop and turn a mob, which is what you want but a 22lr will inflict terrible damage in its own right. Way underrated for damage to a human being. They require just a little training for confidence and repeatability when the time comes for it. Sting a couple at the front of the mob leading the pack and the rest will see what's going on. Stand your ground and sting a few more if you have to and they will get the message. It is still a rifle and if looked at the wrong way after the fact you could be brought up on charges so you have to be very sure you are actually defending yourself or your family.
An old woman shot a burglar with a 22 pistol and the guy had extensive surgury done because the bullet traveled from one side of his ribcage and veered down wreaking havoc. After he got shot he couldn't get out of there fast enough from that eighty year old woman, she had powerful medicine.
A criminal basically is a coward, he picks the softest target he can find. That 22 bullet found some soft tissue right back.
I have killed alot of hogs in my lifetime with the same 22 rifle I have now and their skull is quite thick, think about that.
I also have a 22 power hammer that drives nails into concrete, granted the cartridges are 22 caliber and are not the same but the first time I sent a nail into concrete with one made me a believer in the power of a 22 short and a long rifle just the same.
I had to shoot a fox last year that was so ate up with the mange that it was at the time not acting normal and at that time all I could get my hands on was the family single shot and a 22 short. I dropped him at 40 yards, the first time I ever seen an animal get moved because of a 22 short. Deader than a doornail.
I have had good luck with 22 stingers, very fast rounds but to be honest any quality and dependable round that has a decent speed will do. You need the speed to cycle the action. Test them first to find the dependability for your rifle and when you order the type tested buy them by the brick.
Very versatile cartridge and caliber the 22, most people just don't know with the exception of those who are into 22's. Check out THR. The firing line and there is a 22 forum out there somewhere. You never know, you might strike up a hobby.
A lot of good advice here. Some contradictory but good. Let me add my $.02

First one assumes you intend to stay in your own house and barracade your self and others in a single room.

This would mean you have a narrow well defined area which needs to be covered.....like a door way.

If you plan to go out into the street be aware that the .22 will loose some of its effective ness and once some one gets lucky and hits you with a stolen .25 ACP from half a football field away it will simply provide the bad guys with more weaponry.

Allthough it is based around handgun use I would advice you to take the NRA Personal Protection in the home course as soon as possible. See if you can find an instructor that will loan you a handgun for the quarter of the course that involves shooting.

This will make you familiar with your state and local gun laws and more importantly laws regarding the use or threatened use of deadly force. It will also make you aware of possible problems you have not thought of with your current defensive plans. It will teach you some information valuable to making defensive plans for your castle.

I second getting a cheap but usable shotgun as soon as possible to begin training with. If you are interested in oneday having the Mossy 590 you may wish to get a good used 500 in the mean time. A bead will work at in house distances, even for slug work. If you spend some time and effort playing shtgun games like skeet or trap you may even find you quickly develope some ability to shoot head up and point well enough for in house use ( I will now prepare to defend myself from tacticool shotgun folks) But mainly learning to maintain, handle and keep running a "sporting gun" will apply to you super trooper bad guy shooter you get in the future.

During bad times my primary house long gun is a Mossy 500 GR. That is a basic Mossy 500 with the Ghost Ring sights, and sling swivels and mine happens to have plastic stocks (what was I thinking?) One of the main reasons I got it was that most of my earlier pump shot gun experience had been with a Mossy 500 with wood furnature a bead front and an adjustable choke. All th econtrols were in the same place and worked the same way, loading ans unloading safely were the same and it came to point much the same though the shorter barrel did not swing the same (and the cylinder choke proved a poor performer at skeet, though great with buckshot and foster style slugs for HD applications)

I think getting a gun you know how to use was a great idea whatever caliber it is. Depending on who you talk to the first or second rule of gunfighting is "Have a gun" (alternative first "stay out of gunfights")

I personally would rather have a used sporting shotgun added to my battery in a few weeks rather than a tacticool shotgun in thrice as much time. Then during the time you are saving up for you tacticool gun you can be training with the plain jane model and have the plane jane model if you need a shotgun before you could get the tacticool shotgun. A bad guy soaking up a load of whatever sized shot or slug at across the room distances is not going to notice or care if you had a tacticool shotgun and his buddies behind him are not likely to wait around to find out the model and type of shotgun either. Also you may find that a shotgun is not the best choice for you and so if you find that out with the used gun think how much you might save and how much sooner you might get something you do like.

As to ammo choice for a .22 LR in HD:

I agree with those that say reliability of mechanical action is more important than terminal ballistics. I would rather know with absolute certainty that the gun was going to fire everytime I pulled the trigger rather than that it might have a Marshall and Sanow one shot stop number of 21 percent verses 14 percent. That is BTW what you are looking at iirc. WHen I carried a Beretta M21A as a pocket gun I always carried Winchester Super X solids..... for the simple reason that I found that the most reliable feeding and reliable go boom cartridge. Way long time ago when my only handgun was a Ruger RST4 and it was half my HD battery because everything else was not particullarly appropriate either I chose the same load for the same reason. WHen I got out of the service at one point and all my suitable guns were in a crate awaiting import approval ( for a couple of months) I had to make do initialy with a tube fed .22 LR rifle and guess what, yep you got it I went for mechanical reliability over imagined improvements in terminal ballistics. I also went out immediately and started lookingthrough the local gun stores for a used shotgun I thought reasonable. Not suggesting you do so but I eneded up with a double barrel hammer gun in 12 Gauge that I then used as my primary HD gun but still kept the .22 loaded and handly. Had I found a Mossy 500 with somethng other than a long barrel at a price I could have afforded that weekend I wouldhave bought it, but the coach gun seemed simple and reliable and a step up from a .22LR. I kept the gun about six months then traded it away at a little profit. You may find you can trade away a used sporting shotgun to help you make up for the money you spend on your tacticool dream gun BTW....or you may find you can save by making do with the less showy gun.

Good luck wading through all the opinions.

-Bob Hollingsworth
What's up with all the remarks ridiculing the guy for wanting a 590?
So what if you got 13 rounds? My Ruger holds 15 in the factory mags and I would love to have a couple Mec-Gar 17 rounders. And the AK holds 30.
Want a 590? By all means... Save your pennies and make your home just a little safer with one.

As for the 10/22, I can also second the comments about reliablity and CCI ammo. Twenty-two is relatively cheap so you should be able to put 1K through it in practice/reliability testing to make sure it will work. I'll agree that I feel much for comfortable with a 12 gauge, but if a .22 is what you have and you have to make it work it makes sense to me. After all, I just stepped back to a 9mm because I didn't like fighting the tremors a .40 was giving me. Shoot what you can control.

Someone once made the comment that firepower is bullets hitting targets, not just flying through the air. By that reasoning, a 10/22 would offer VERY good firepower to most new shooters. And FYI, I have tested .22LR HV rounds (CCI) on an old car. They shot completely through both sides. If they can punch through two old (meaing late '70's) car doors, they can shoot through someone trying to kill you.
Wow that's a pretty small blurb.

For the price of the 590, I would go with a WASR10(AK47). Mags are cheap. Ammo is cheap...relatively speaking. Easier to shoot than heavy shotgun loads. If you have a Dunhams down there, they go on sale regularly for around $300.
RickyD,you have the 10/22 so get a few factory mags.They always work.Next go buy a Mossberg Maverick 12 guage with an 18.5 bbl. new or used as your budget dictates.Get some cheap ammo at Wal-mart and practice shooting.Then get some 00Buck for HD.Check it for function and accuracy and you'll be good to go.YMMV.tom.:cool:
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I will throw a little out there.

1. Good move buying the 10/22. You can keep it forever and it will last forever. Since it was the only thing you knew how to use at the time it made a lot of sense. A gun is way better than no gun or a gun you are either incompetent with or have no confidence in.

2. Buy a shotgun when you can afford it. Learn how to use it and load it with HP slugs. Don't use buckshot unless you never plan on shooting past 25 feet.

3. Load your 10/22 until then with the most reliable ammo you can find. Don't use Hollow Points (HP) unless that is the only thing that works well. You will get better penetration with solids and they will bounce around and cause just as much damage as a HP if not more.

4. Don't waste any more money on hicap mags. Even the best ones are not as reliable as the factory ten rounders. Instead buy several factory mags. Also buy a magazine quick release from an on line store such as Cheaper Than Dirt or Sportsmen Guide. This four dollar part takes five minutes to install and will halve your magazine reload times.

5. If you decide to stay with the 10/22 buy a pistol grip stock that extends such as the one Tapco sells and mount a red dot scope. This will make your gun much handier and still weigh the same. But a shotgun is still better.

6. .22 RF is a horrible penetrator. Last weekend I tested a number of rounds against an old computer and noticed that none would go through a thin layer of plastic and two layers of sheet metal. This included HV, HP, 60 gr Aquila, solids and several different brands. They alll bounced off the second layer of sheet metal despite multiple hits in the same spot. What this means to me is that they will not go through a car door, exit my house (except through a window), go through most furniture etc.....

Within it's limitations the .22RF is a fine round, the problem is it is so limited.

BTW- Not much difference between the two rounds, but I prefer Stingers.
CCI ammo--and factory mags.

Failing this, buy hi-cap single stack (not staggered) mags. Forget the 'drums' and such. I've have 2 Choate plastic hi caps (25 rnd) for over twenty years and not had a problem. The best bet is to run MANY rounds through the mag before you bet on it, and treat it gently. As said, you'll NEVER match the reliability standard of the Ruger rotary mag.

Be careful, keep those shades drawn, and sleep behind brick!

And remember--that .22 stinger outclasses a .380 ACP fired from a pistol in terms of energy. And yes, the Mos. 590 or 500 will be a one-up.

If you want that 10/22 to look 'meaner' on a budget--spray the factory wood stock with a hi-quality flat black epoxy spray paint.
Titan6 Quoted:
6. .22 RF is a horrible penetrator. Last weekend I tested a number of rounds against an old computer and noticed that none would go through a thin layer of plastic and two layers of sheet metal.
Human flesh is not sheet metal. Ask the guy who robbed an elderly couple up here in Md why he had to go through 5 hours of surgery. Granted the 22LR isn't the greatest round of Home defence choice but again the 22LR gets under rated.
Perfect round to train with and gain confidence to boot. Shouldn't be the first weapon of choice but a rifle is still a rifle.
STINGERS! Anyways, two hours to restore order? Time to move brother. If not understood, think about 9mm or 40 S&W with some Speer Golddots, or a 12 Ga. with some Dead Coyote T Shot.:D:D

Semper Fi!!

P.S. Get a Glock
Ignore the mossberg vs winchester wars, please. Get a good, cheap shotgun from one of the following choices:

Maverick 88, Mossberg 500 (8 shot HD magazine version if you want), Remington 870. Unless you plan on using the shotgun as a melee weapon or to shield yourself from shrapnel or blast waves from explosives, the plastic parts are not going to be a concern. You aren't planning on fighting a war here. The 870 is probably a LITTLE more solidly built, and it's more likely to be found as a police trade-in (used), but there are some good points in favor of the Mossberg too, like the ambidextrous thumb safety (DO NOT USE A PISTOLGRIP ON THE MOSSBERG, it puts the safety/slide release in an akward position) and perfect placement of the slide release for right-handers. Any of these shotguns is an excellent choice. Use buckshot, probably 00 Buckshot is the easiest to find at Walmart. If you really want the 590, ask yourself if you are planning on firing dozens of rounds at a time (that's the only reason for the heat shield), or if you really need 9 rounds vs 8 (the HD model of the 500 has 8 rounds, and can take a speedfeeder stock as well, or just a sidesaddle/stock sleeve for an additional 4-6 rounds). I mean, you are planning on holing up in one room of your place and pointing the 12 gauge at the door right (no windows in the room I hope). Once you start to fire the 12 gauge, do you really expect them to keep coming after you? Do you really need that many rounds? Please.

Like the man said, get some training too.
And remember--that .22 stinger outclasses a .380 ACP fired from a pistol in terms of energy

Neo-Luddite, you keep posting this information, but you've never cited any source. Previously, you've claimed the Stinger achieves 325 ft/lbs. That number does match up with anyone's numbers I've ever seen. Even CCI's ballistics show it at 191 ft/lbs out of a rifle which puts it on the lower end of performance of a .380 handgun. The faster Aguila rounds only reach out 204 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

You really need to quit propagating this myth about a .22LR being more powerful than a .380 unless you've got some evidence to back it up.
Get an 870. It's cheaper than the mossberg, and better. Get it with a short barrel and use the money you saved buying the less expensive gun to buy a pistol grip.

Sure, the pistol grip makes it worse on the range, but in a situation where you have to defend yourself, your target won't be a tiny orange frisbee. And the more maneuverable and compact your shotgun is, the more likely it will be with you in a hurry.
use solid nose ammo in that 10-22, practice with it and get a reliable 25 rd. magazine. Butler Creek steel lips are great. Velocitors are good hard hitting. I can't count the deer I've killed (many over 200 pounds) with one shot from my .22 LR rifles. all of the head shots I took dropped in their tracks.
and don't tale any crap from that howling mob, just burn 5-6 rounds their way real fast like, they will get the message.
You did the right thing by buying a weapon that you know how to operate and have experiance with.
I also have to say that I am glad you have the right mindset. You wont allow yourself to be a victim.

I think the Mossberg 590 is a fine choice for a defensive shotgun. I myself have a Remington 870 and it hasn't failed me yet haha.
However, you said you wanted the ghost ring sights on your shotgun, I would advise against these for home defense useage.
My reasoning is that while they are great sights to have on a gun for longer distances, home defense ranges are almost always too close for comfort, and trying to get the sights perfectly on target could cost you in the long run. Go with a simple bead sight, its all you will need.

I myself also prefer wood stocked weapons as to polymer. I know the wood wont crack if I have to use my shotgun like a louisville slugger :evil:
Like I said in my first post, the Velociters because they are heavier than the Stingers.

Velociter = 40 gr @ 1435 FPS & 183 ft/lbs of energy
Stinger = 32 gr @ 1640 FPS & 191 ft/lbs of energy

You will do more damage with the 40 gr bullet at that speed IMO.

Keep your head down and be safe!!
Reliability is more important than the number of rounds you can send down range. I would stick to the 10 round factory mags. I would also stick with a 40 grain bullet. Penetration to vital organs is more important than bullet speed. Looking to a 'better' gun for self defense is also a good idea. The ruger is a great gun, but not the best for most. I prefer the Rem. 870, Win. 1300, and Ithaca 87 over Mossberg, YMMV.
CCI Velocitor all the way! Don't take MY word for it; try it yourself.

A .22 will work great for self defense if you can place multiple center mass shots in rapid succession or take a head shot. This is impractical, not impossible, but mostly foolish. Personally, my choice for home defense is a S&W N-frame model 629 .44mag. If you hit a target anywhere on their torso or center mass with (1) 300 grain .44mag hydra-shock, regardless of their size, they are done...even a grizzly bear is done! I do, however LOVE the .22 round. It has its place in the world beyond plinking. My 10/22 loaded with CCI Velocitor, supersonic (1435fps) 40 grain hollow points is a formidable weapon within 85 meters. Think I am crazy? Try it yourself. Find a hefty phonebook and saturate it with warm water. Set it out at 50 meters, and stand it against a flat, firm backstop like a piece of plywood. Shoot one side of the book with a CCI Velocitor. Next, shoot the other side with a CCI Stinger (32 grain, 1640 fps hollow point.) See for yourself how the two .22lr rounds compare. For me it was a no brainer, despite the CCI Stinger's speed, it just didnt have the energy to penetrate completely. The Velocitor on the other hand, with it's 40 grain Gold Dot hollow point was a devastating thru and thru with really nice cavitation and a surprisingly large exit hole. I do believe that a well placed shot to the head with a CCI Velocitor will take down a deer or a large man. To the best of my knowledge, hunting deer anywhere in the USA with ANY .22lr is illegal, and for good reason. Most people would merely injure the deer and let it run around for a week and die a slow painful death. This is not to say that a proficient shooter in a life-or-death survival situation could not feed himself REALLY well with a handful of CCI Velocitor rounds, and/or defend himself adequately. I have not yet tried the Aguila 60 grain .22lr, but when I do, I will definitely let you all know what I discover. For all of you who love to shoot 5.56 but dont want to send 2 quarters down range each time you pull the trigger, I recommend the Ruger 10/22 with any number of aftermarket stock/furniture options. Nordic Components even makes a very high quality "AR-22" conversion kit which is sure to please any "black gun" enthusiast. High quality, modified .22lr bolts and magazines for the AR-15 are also available. I hope you found my little bit of research helpful. Happy shooting Everyone!

Talk about waking a thread from the dead. This thread was almost 3 years inactive. No need to relive it now.

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