.22 short and .25 ACP smaller pocket guns?

[chicharrones]

This looks about nearly perfect for a pocket pistol...
https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-25naa/

I had one of those in .32 ACP for years and finally sold it off recently. The .25 NAA and .32 Guardians are the same size guns.

The Guardian has a true double action where every pull of the trigger fully cocks and drops the hammer. The trouble with the Guardian in my opinion is that it is a blowback pistol with a tiny grip. If that gun moves in your hand at all while firing, you get a limp wrist type of jam.

KelTec and all that followed with their locked breech pocket guns bested the Guardians in weight and usability (IMO). Plus, a small locked breech gun usually doesn't suffer from limp wrist problems as easily as a small blowback gun can. Again, my opinion from my own personal experience.

Here's my old Guardian next to my Beretta Bobcat.
View attachment 913864

Of course, you could always install the 10 round magazine for more grip area, but . . .

Pic of my old Guardian with standard grips and extended magazine.
View attachment 913865

 

[bannockburn]

I picked this Baby Browning up a number of years ago mainly for my fascination with miniature guns; that and the price was too good to pass up. Still I wouldn't carry it as I don't think for more serious work it's as safe or as effective as my KelTec P3AT would be. I consider it more of a novelty item that I enjoy having around and leave it at that.

 

[Oaktree45]

This looks about nearly perfect for a pocket pistol...
https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-25naa/

The NAA .25 makes no sense to me. It uses proprietary ammo and it's built on the same frame as their 32 ACP. Why would anyone buy the .25 instead of the 32 ACP?

 

[whm1974]

I picked this Baby Browning up a number of years ago mainly for my fascination with miniature guns; that and the price was too good to pass up. Still I wouldn't carry it as I don't think for more serious work it's as safe or as effective as my KelTec P3AT would be. I consider it more of a novelty item that I enjoy having around and leave it at that.
View attachment 913867
View attachment 913868

Years ago a friend of mine had a cheaper Baby Browning .25 Auto and when I held it with finger on trigger guard/frame, I couldn't do that without the safety lever sliding off safe. And I just barely noticed that happen. That turned me off .25 auto pocket pistols completely.

 

[chicharrones]

Found this while surfin' the web about the Kolb Baby Hammerless in .22 Short.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-kolb-hammerless/

 

[lincen]

It seems that most cyclists I've run across are vehemently anti-gun these days. Maybe that has something to do with it?

That’s interesting, I’m a little bit anticyclist. If you want to be on the road with cars then go by all the laws. Back to the topic now, shot a few rounds through one of my Bernardelli 25’s and also and old German Kommer 25.

 

[TTv2]

The NAA .25 makes no sense to me. It uses proprietary ammo and it's built on the same frame as their 32 ACP. Why would anyone buy the .25 instead of the 32 ACP?

Could argue reduced recoil and better feeding, but otherwise I agree. A faster .25 bullet, be it 35 gr JHP or 50 gr FMJ still sucks relative to any larger caliber and would be about as fast as what a .22 Mag can get from a similar barrel length.

 

[typhun]

If I was carrying I will want the gun to be on my person to make harder for anyone to take it away from me. This is why I'm not a fan of of women packing heat in their purses, purse snatcher and all that...

I tend to agree with you and prefer on body carry but when in the summer wearing a road bike kit there aren't a lot of options without printing or having the carry interfere with riding and i figure the trade off to not having it is worth it as well the relative easy to access it. MTB seems to lend to some more varied options

 

[Daveboone]

I think the popularity of the .22s and .25 pocket guns had a lot to do with the much more rural character of the country. People walked/ biked, rode a lot more than they do today, and probably quite a bit longer distances...they didn't have the number of vehicles to jump in to ride to the mail box. Leash laws were probably non existent, and in days gone by mom, grandma and sis were brought up around guns a lot more. Toting a compact pistol wasn't as controversial.

 

[JERRY]

anybody have a real side by side overlay of the baby browning and the Seecamp?

 

[whm1974]

Could argue reduced recoil and better feeding, but otherwise I agree. A faster .25 bullet, be it 35 gr JHP or 50 gr FMJ still sucks relative to any larger caliber and would be about as fast as what a .22 Mag can get from a similar barrel length.

My main issue with this cartridge is that it is proprietary ammo and hard to obtain without buying it online.
Personally I think that something similar to the size of the .25 Auto casing but stronger and rimless, and necked down to .224" could be better.

 

[WVGunman]

When that gun came out I was hopeful that they would drop bore size and offer it in 32. I was certain that a 22 version was coming along shortly but it has never happened. Seems silly to go to all the trouble to design the gun and only offer the 1 configuration.

Which gun were you referring to?

 

[WVGunman]

If you want a bigger caliber that's pretty much a no go because in revolvers the old guard that's been around for decades only wants .38 because .32 is just no good to them. Forget that 5 shot .32 S&W shorts were a standard carry gun in the late 19th and early 20th Century, they're not as powerful as a .38 and as we all know when we want an ultra small gun it needs stopping power because men will feel emasculated carrying a small, weak caliber.

Plus,they can charge more for the bigger caliber, because people think they're GETTING more, even though the costs to make them are pretty similar. Houses and cars can be that way too. Marketing is a bitch.

 

[whm1974]

Stop me someone already this, still offer guns and ammo for this, but why not neck down a .32 Auto case to .224 inch with 40 to 60 grain bullets? Test phase and prototypes use the .32 Auto casing with later ammo and guns sold on Market using a stronger and rimless case of the same size?

 

[TTv2]

Plus,they can charge more for the bigger caliber, because people think they're GETTING more, even though the costs to make them are pretty similar. Houses and cars can be that way too. Marketing is a bitch.

That's largely the problem with the .32 caliber in that because it's not .380, 9mm, or .38 it shouldn't cost as much is what people think, but what if it costs the same? Still, it's not as much bullet, it should be less.

It's funny how so many people who will espouse that people should overspend on a "quality" gun, holster, magazines, lights, optics, premium/boutique defense ammo, etc. but when you tell them there's benefits to a lower recoiling caliber like .32 they'll have none of it because it costs $2 more a box.

I largely blame Walmart for this because for decades they were putting Winchester White Box on the shelf in smaller calibers and had a $28 price tag on it and right next to it was the $12 box for 9mm.

I don't think that's possible with any of the .32 revolver cartridges, but with .32 ACP I think there's so little in raw material with that caliber it can be made cheaper than .380 if there was enough demand and if Tula or Wolf would make steel case ammo for it. Which is actually a good question because they make steel .380, which is popular in the US due to the pocket pistols, but .32 ACP is really popular in Europe, which is the backyard of those ammo manufacturers.

 

[TTv2]

Stop me someone already this, still offer guns and ammo for this, but why not neck down a .32 Auto case to .224 inch with 40 to 60 grain bullets? Test phase and prototypes use the .32 Auto casing with later ammo and guns sold on Market using a stronger and rimless case of the same size?

They do, it's called 5.7x28

 

[whm1974]

They do, it's called 5.7x28

But is it 28mm long, making it almost impossible for those with small hands to hold the guns by the grip. and the cartridge was designed to penetrate military body armor.

What I'm proposing only has a case length of 17mm.

 

[TTv2]

But is it 28mm long, making it almost impossible for those with small hands to hold the guns by the grip. and the cartridge was designed to penetrate military body armor.

What I'm proposing only has a case length of 17mm.

Oh, yeah, they have that too it's 5.45x18. Most well known for being used in the Soviet PSM pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45×18mm

 

[whm1974]

Oh, yeah, they have that too it's 5.45x18. Most well known for being used in the Soviet PSM pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45×18mm

Still not the same. I would use a .32" diameter case necked down to .224" resulting in higher velocities then HV .22 LR is capable of.

 

[chicharrones]

Still not the same. I would use a .32" diameter case necked down to .224" resulting in higher velocities then HV .22 LR is capable of.

Except for the .25 NAA you already mentioned, there must not be a market for it.

Another cartridge for consideration would be the .22 TCM. Except there are no pocket guns made for it that I know of.

 

[whm1974]

Except for the .25 NAA you already mentioned, there must not be a market for it.

Another cartridge for consideration would be the .22 TCM. Except there are no pocket guns made for it that I know of.

Yeah but that wildcat wasn't meant for pocket pistols anyway.

 

[WestKentucky]

Which gun were you referring to?

Taurus 380 revolver

 

[chicharrones]

This thread does get my interest up in the NAA mini revolvers again. I can imagine pulling it out while riding a bicycle, thumb cocking it, then accidentally dropping it . . . without it having a transfer bar. Oooof.

 

[MedWheeler]

JERRY writes:

..anybody have a real side by side overlay of the baby browning and the Seecamp?

I just saw your post. I slapped a Bauer, which is a stainless clone of the Browning, and a Seecamp, onto the couch.

 

[Oaktree45]

The trouble with those small pistols is the chance the web of skin between the thumb and index finger might be too high on the gun and when you fire it the slide cuts two nice groves in your skin. Normally slide bite only happens once in your life because you handle the gun with more respect after that. Once is enough.