221 Fireball - should I buy???

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vito.47

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I have a friend looking to sell a barely used Cooper M21 in .221 Rem Fireball. He had it built to add to his collection but never used it much and doesn't need it taking up space anymore. I've been thinking about getting into varmint shooting but only ever considered the .22-250. After doing some research on the .221, I like what I've read and was looking for some advice from those who know. I currently own a couple AR's and some .22lr hand-me-downs (10/22, 550-1).

My concerns are that no one manufactures a .221 anymore and factory ammo seems to be dwindling. Would it be worth getting this quality bolt gun? Will I be able to find brass 15 years from now? What are the benefits compared to a very accurate .223 AR?

Yes, I like the idea of another rifle (who doesn't), but what justifies the .221 over currently owned .223's or even a future owned .22-250?

Looking forward to the replies.
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Ask yourself why it's a failed cartridge.

Then you'll have your answer as if you want to play with it.


In the Remington pistol for which it was developed it was fun.

In anything else... why bother?


Willie

.
 
221 fb

Nice little caliber, but a little on the wimpy side. If you are going to shoot coyotes inside 200 yards it should be fine. It's somewhere between a Hornet and the venerable .222. I like it necked down to .17! Regarding brass, you can always make it out of .223, so you should have an endless supply for years to come. However... If I were spending relatively big money on a Cooper, I would choose a caliber with more versatility. Just my opinion. Think about how you will use it and make an educated choice. BTW, the .22-250 is a great long range caliber. I have verified PD kills beyond 650 yards. Loud, but fun.
 
Willie Sutton said it perfectly...

Ask yourself why it's a failed cartridge.

Then you'll have your answer as if you want to play with it.

In the Remington pistol for which it was developed it was fun.

In anything else... why bother?
Click to expand...

The Fireball bolt action pistol is a hoot and a half, and insanely accurate. To put that l'il dinky cartridge in a bolt action rifle, when it doesn't do anything better than any other cartridge...nah.
 
I would be hard pressed to pass it up if the price was good, but heck, I like .22 Hornet in a rifle as well. Always wanted one a .221 Fireball.
 
vito, It just depends....

I am a gun nut myself and feel that I cant have enough firearms of calibers. At last count I am hand loading 45 different cartridges. I have a lot of rifles that overlap each other . It just doesn't matter to me.

I came across a nice little CZ 527 in 221 FB a few years ago. I really needed another centerfire .22 like I need a hole in my head but decided to get it.The uniqueness of the cartridge and the handiness of the mini mauser action rifle combination sold me. Since that time I have taken countless crows with it and just last week took a 165lb feral hog with a 50gr Sierra to the head.

The 221 FB is really a niche cartridge, but like it's big brother the 222 Rem it is very efficient. You will need to handload for it as OTC ammo is pricey and hard to find. I have a 4lb jug of AA2015BR that will last me a lifetime.

Own several Cooper rifles myself and they all shoot lights out. You will like the little M21 I am sure.

In the end it's going to be your decision on whether you want it. It's a nice rifle and the 221FB is actually an over achiever, neither of them main stream. If the price is right it would be a no brainer for me even already owning one.:)
 
The 221 Fireball was a fun cartridge in my XP 100 years ago. Its now outdated, and not a great rifle round. The 223 Rem easily out shoots it. But if the price is right, maybe? Think 6mm.
 
The 221 Remington Fireball is more powerful than the 22 Hornet but not as noisy, or as long ranged, as the 223 Remington.

It is a good little cartridge but I suspect that the environments that it would shine in are a casualty of urban sprawl, purchasing panics, and mall ninjas.

I have a Contender with a 22" Bullberry barrel and a Remington 700 chambered in 221 Remington and they are a joy to shoot.

Case life is good to excellent and case forming is not too difficult if factory cases become unavailable. Redding makes a set of forming dies, or at least used to. 300 BLK cases may be another source but I have not investigated that yet.

I like 40 grain bullets in the 221 Remington Fireball which have not been available in factory ammunition in the years that I have been shooting the 221 Remington Fireball. But 50 grain bullets shoot well as well.

I like fiddling with this kind of stuff but I understand it is not everyone's cup of tea.
 
Don't over think it, buy it, shoot it, and enjoy it.

No matter what caliber you have there will be one faster, flatter, more of whatever.

Hopefully your friend will give you a good deal.
 
I would buy it instantly. But I like the oddballs. They tend to retain value. I would not buy it with any expectation of consistently shooting it though. I would acquire a hundred rounds or so, have a little fun with it, keep a box or two, and retire it to the safe.
 
Might want to go the http://www.varminthunters.com/forum/index.php. There are quite a few Fireball lovers over there. For the most part, these are guys that shoot a lot.

I'm really considering selling my .22-250 and getting either a .221 or .22 Hornet. When we go on prairie dog hunts, the noise/blast of the bigger calibers drives them down the hole in a hurry. Something like the .221 could be used in the 100-200 yard range and not have the noise. For the occasional ground hog, coyote, or crow, the .22-250 is hard to beat.
 
Failed? My .221 gets good mileage! I get around 2800 fps with only 14.8 grains of fuel! Add up a day in the Pdog fields, 200 rounds time 10 grains savings per round. Every 3.1 trips you save a pound of powder! I love mine! I shoot a bunch of failed cartridges though.
 
I currently own four. An xp-100, a CZ, a Remington 700, and a AR with a 22 inch barrel.
Yes, I like the fireball. It is efficient, accurate, quieter than a .223, and a pleasure to shoot. I find .221 fireball on the shelves when I don't find .223 as of late. You will never run out of brass when you can make your own out of .223. It takes a LOT of reloads to kill a .221 case.
If you listen to all the guys that tell you it is less powerful than a .223, well they are right. But at the same time they will tell me that my stable of .264 win mags are silly and no better than their beloved 6.5 swede.
 
I bought a Contender .221 barrel a while back and also found brass to be scarce. However, after some research, I learned that .221 can be formed from .222. It works better that the .243/.308 method which runs into neck thickness issues.
 
"Failed?"


Yes, failed.

As in "never commercially viable", and "firearms not generally available in this cartridge" and "never caught on" = "failed".

That does not speak to it's "quality", as it and other commercial failures and hundreds upon hundreds of Wildcat cartridges fit the same description. There's no doubt that it shoots fine and is very efficient at it's job. In the XP-100 it's a ball, as I said.

I guess if you want to shoot a weak .22 centerfire and prefer to save a few pinches of powder over the course of using a pound of powder as compared to handloading light loads for the .222 or .223 cartridges to produce the same effect, that's OK. Just seems a cartridge looking for an excuse though *especially* in a rifle.

If you want to be different, and enjoy handloading, and think it's fun to shoot, then enjoy it. I've wildcatted stranger things that that. Hobbies are all about fun, and don't need to be practical, do they?


Willie

.
 
MI2600 said:
However, after some research, I learned that .221 can be formed from .222.
Click to expand...

Yes, 222 Remington is probably a better case to form into 221 Remington Fireball but it is getting difficult to find as well.

223 Remington can be used but requires a bit more work then 222 Remington. At least 223 Remington is plentiful.
 
Failed cartridge? As someone who built a rifle in .219 Zipper, I have no room to throw stones, but I would say the Cooper is a damned nice rifle, but you'll eventually come to regret having it in .221 Fireball. One of the 17s would be great, or .222 Rem, but .221 Fireball will be like my .219 Zipper - a museum relic when it's time to bequeath it to your grandson.
 
Pass! For over a buck a round, I'll shoot 7mm Rem Mag!

I typically do not condone adding guns of oddball calibers to ones arsenal unless the gun is of historical significance. I have a Webley, a Nagant revolver, and a MAS36 that all take oddball ammo. I would love to get a Nambu, that would be another oddball caliber.

To me, Vito, your collection seems kind of small. I would spend my money on something else.

ETA: And you can take that advice to the bank! In this day and age, nobody gets crummy advice of the internet.
 
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Well, the good Doctor has a way of putting things! I will admit that the .221 is a reloader's cartridge, but so is everything else I own. I don't shoot factory stuff!
I would still buy the rifle, if you reload.
If we all have to be so darned practical we would only have a .22 lr, a 30-06 and a 12 gauge.
 
I have a 221 Fireball but use the 17 Fireball more for prairie dog shooting. If the price is right one could have the Cooper rechambered to a 223 Rem .
 
Update...

Thanks to all who responded. I decided against it, used some of the money for other things (i.e. Christmas presents and savings).

It was never on my wish list to begin with - no worries.
 
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