300 Fireball vs 7.62x39mm for a 30 cal AR build

[R.W.Dale]

I like the modularity of the AR15 platform but I would like one in something larger than .223 preferable 30 cal because that's what bullets I keep on hand. This leads me to consider 300/221 and the tried and true 7.62x39mm. I currently load for the Russian round and factory ammo is widely avalible which is a plus for it. But the fireball can take std AR mags.

Please offer the AR newbie some edumication on the good bad and ugly regarding these two chambering. The rifle will mostly be used for paper punching out to 300m and some close in deer hunting in the woods

 

[RyanM]

7.62x39mm AR mags are hard to find and very expensive.

Personally, I was trying to decide between those calibers myself, awhile ago (planning a distant future purchase), and I eventually decided on .300/221. Standard magazines, and if you get a barrel with the chamber specifically cut for it, you can form .223 brass into .300/221, it just ends up with a thicker than usual neck. http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/300-221.shtml

But I'm planning on getting an SBR with a can, so that made the choice a lot more one sided for me.

If you can live with $60 magazines and the possibility of not being able to use steel cased ammo, no reason not to get 7.62x39mm if you're not going to suppress it.

 

[doc2rn]

If .223 doesn't do it for you I would get a good shooting cartridge like .308.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If .223 doesn't do it for you I would get a good shooting cartridge like .308.

The other cartridges will shoot good as well, for me at my budget the AR10/308 platform is a rich mans game. I just cannot see the justification for them being that much more $$$ than an ar15

If you can live with $60 magazines and the possibility of not being able to use steel cased ammo, no reason not to get 7.62x39mm if you're not going to suppress it.
__________________

I've never been to sort who feels the need to own 20 high cap mags for each gun. If I could get a couple 5 rounders and maybe a 10 without too much money I'd be happy

 

[1832]

Granted, the 7.62x39 30rd mags have been a problem, but I believe C Products will have the bugs out of them shortly. I have three of their 20rd 7.62x39 mags and they work perfectly. I've never seen mags for 60.00 and wouldn't pay that for any mag unless it loaded itself.

 

[Tarvis]

I'm working on a 300 fireball at the moment as well; I'll probably go with a model 1 sales barrel.

If .223 doesn't do it for you I would get a good shooting cartridge like .308

What exactly does that mean? What do you mean by shoot good? You realize that .308 is in an entirely different category and rifle right?

I say 7.62x39 if you don't mind buying mags and plan on shooting cheap surplus and 300 fireball if you already have AR mags, reload (most important) and possibly even plan on getting a suppressor. I don't know what the 300 sounds like with subsonic loads and no suppressor sound like, but I'm sure they are very quite in comparison.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I looked at the 7.62x39mm AR options and ultimately decided they made no sense. Part of this is because you can buy two nice SKS's, or one very nice AK, for the price of just an upper. Second part is the mags, and third part is thinking about the combination of the AR gas system with very dirty propellants used in all the cheap imported ammo.

Since you're into handloading, what about 6.5 Grendel, for which there is now fairly affordable, reloadable brass-cased Wolf Gold ammo available? Otherwise the .300 Fireball seems like a decent idea if you're determined to do a .30 cal AR.

 

[R.W.Dale]

unfortunatly a 6.5g upper alone will cost more than an entire AR build in the other two calibers. As a handloader ammo avalibility isn't real important to me, but brass avalibility is. Both the x39 and the 300fireball use very common and cheap brass.

I looked at the 7.62x39mm AR options and ultimately decided they made no sense. Part of this is because you can buy two nice SKS's,

for me it's a different set of considerations, whilst it's true SKS'es and Saigas can be had cheaper you also don't get the accuracy good sights and versatility of mounting optics the AR platform provides. So you see for me 7.62x39 is potentially as good as any other 30cal AR cartridge.

But that fireball is awfully cool.......

 

[jerkface11]

I think you'll like 7.62x39 better. You already load for it so there's less money to spend. C-Products makes mags for it which aren't expensive. Plus you'll have the option of shooting factory ammo.

 

[gvnwst]

i have herad that the 7.62x39 has feeding problems in a ar platform due to a lot of case taper, but i don't know for sure. i would go with the .300/.221 IF you have reloading equipment. (if you want to shoot factory ammo, go with the 'x39) the ammo will cost more, but it feeds better, cheaper mags, and with supersonic loads equals the 7.62x39 and the good 'ol 30-30. and subsonic, possibily suppressed loads are easy.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

with the X39 you have the options of gr. weight slugs from 110 to 150 (since you load for it you maybe know that), the Speer 150 SP does great.

 

[gvnwst]

with the X39 you have the options of gr. weight slugs from 110 to 150

yeah, but with the fireball you can run from 100gr to 240gr. the .308" bullet dia makes for a greater selection.

 

[rangerruck]

If you reload, there is no comparison, what you can do with the 300 fireball, as in silenced, and accuracy, as compared to the 762 russian.

 

[Tarvis]

I posted a "give me some 300 fireball ideas" thread earlier and got like 2 replies. It seems like not many know about the fireball/whisper, so I'm not surprised many are saying x39 instead of the more versatile, compatible and cost effective 300/221.

 

[JFettig]

The bigest problem with 300 whisper/fireball/221 is making the brass, I've made over 1000 cases, its time consuming, then when you loose them it hurts.
Other than that, I prefer 300 fireball over the other hands down, very versatile cartridge. I've had a very small amount of feeding difficulty with some mags and bullets but less with others.

a huge plus is the availability of .308 dia bullets in MANY shapes and sizes vs the .310 bullets of 7.62x39.

Jon

 

[Tarvis]

JFettig, are you resizing 221 brass or cutting 223 brass?

 

[the naked prophet]

Also keep in mind that the AR bolt lugs were designed around the .223 case head, not the 7.62x39 case head. x39 bolt lugs (and some 6.8) have been known to shear off and/or bend after very low round counts. .300 fireball (or whisper) are based on the .223 sized bolt, and do not have this problem.

 

[electronrider]

I too am going the 300 fireball route. I already have an sks and an AK, so going 7.62x39 is really kinda pointless for me on an AR platform.

If you are going 300 fireball, it really is a must that you reload. not so with x39.

Best part of all is that whenever you get the first one built, you can then go get the other upper, and swap them as you please! LOL

 

[R.W.Dale]

I eventually decided on .300/221. Standard magazines, and if you get a barrel with the chamber specifically cut for it, you can form .223 brass into .300/221, it just ends up with a thicker than usual neck. http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/300-221.shtml

Ryan who did you get your bbl from with this special chamber? If I could get this chamber I would go fireball hands down.

Otherwize I'm too lazy to turn that many cases and I'll go with 7.62x39mm

 

[Tarvis]

From what I understand, a 300 whisper(R) chamber is slightly different from a 300 fireball/221 some how, like the neck is a little bit tighter. I've also read that if you neck up from 221 fireball to 300 fireball you don't have to turn the necks because they aren't thicker, they're thinner. Ar15barrels.com seems to have a long wait time, I sent him an email a week or more ago and haven't heard back. His website says he hand builds the 300 fireball barrels and his auto reply email message said he was super busy and back-ordered like 6 weeks or so.

As far as resources on 300 fireball, there aren't many barrel manufacturers that I have found and the ones that do sell them are expensive. You could also have a local gunsmith get the "loose chamber" reamer and chamber the barrel for you, but I don't know what your budget is.

 

[RyanM]

Ryan who did you get your bbl from with this special chamber? If I could get this chamber I would go fireball hands down.

I haven't bought mine yet. Still saving up money. I have a lot of projects like that on the back burner.

Anyway, though, since http://www.AR15barrels.com lists the info on how to make .300/221 brass out of .223 cases, I assume they can make barrels that will take slightly thicker necked brass. It would be really annoying to have to turn down the necks.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Well you can use 221 fireball brass but it is more expensive.....when you can get it.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Other: Why compromise when you can have it all?

http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm

 

[R.W.Dale]

Other: Why compromise when you can have it all?

http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm

There are virtually NO .338 bullets that'll reliably expand inside this cartridges velocity envelope

Now If I felt REALLY froggy I would jump on this
http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/357auto.shtml

but even then if it won't shoot pistol or RN bullets expansion is going to be spotty at best

 

[jerkface11]

Unfortunately the guy running ar15barrels.com is more than a little flaky. I wouldn't order anything from him unless you have a lot of time on your hands.