.223 55 grain - drop versus 69 grain at 100 yards

[lezmark]

I have my AR sighted in at 100 yards with 55 grain reloads. I picked up 69 grain factory HP's and took a shot at a piggie yesterday at about 150 yards and MISSED. I hate when that happens. Anyone speculate on the drop difference? I think i saw a puff of dust below and that would mean a drop close to 18 inches or more

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I know that in many other calibers, a change in bullet weight often doesn't result in a significant difference in zero at 100 yards

No way it should have been 18" off. I would expect maybe 3-4" difference. I think you are seeing an optical illusion, quite possibly.

 

[BBarn]

I would guess that if the true difference in impact point was more than an inch or two, the major contributing factor was barrel twist rate (bullet stability) or barrel whip/harmonics, not simply drop..

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Could it just be that your rifle shoots the different ammo at a completely different point of impact.

Change Ammo Check ZERO period...everything else is just guessing. I wouldn't imagine that the trajectory would be so much different that it would make a complete miss on something the size of a pig.

Just today at 50 yards I shot some 62gr "green tip" and the POI was over 3 inches lower and 2 inches left, from where my 55gr Vmax reloads were hitting. Has nothing to do with trajectory and everything with different ammo shoots differently.

 

[Laphroaig]

I'd want more than one shot before I drew any conclusions. Shoot a group on paper to verify what's happening.

 

[Bearded Phil]

I'd want more than one shot before I drew any conclusions. Shoot a group on paper to verify what's happening.

This is a good plan.

Also if you have a chronograph or have chrono'd both rounds and know the approximate BC you can input the data into this calculator to get an idea of what your drop would be at 150 when you're sighted to 100.

 

[mokin]

I've never observed more than a couple/few inches difference in POI. Like others have suggested, I suspect more than just the bullet weight is a factor.

 

[Varminterror]

The drop isn’t what got you. Heavier or lighter, faster or slower, at 100yrds, it really doesn’t matter - it’s harmonic and mechanical offsets which cause POI shift between one load to the next.

Missing a pig completely at only 100yrds, however, likely had nothing at all to do with any POI shift due to the load change.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I'd want more than one shot before I drew any conclusions. Shoot a group on paper to verify what's happening.

Outstanding suggestion, which also indirectly begs the question as to why the OP was hunting with a bullet/load of unknown zero.

We zero under controlled circumstances so as to rule out other variables that might cause us to draw the wrong conclusions, not in the field where the results may be influenced by things like unknown distances, buck fever, rest stability issues, pushing/pulling/yanking/rushing/anticipating shots, etc.

When I first got into hunting, if I missed a shot, I would stop by my range and verify whether or not the issue was with the gear, or with me. Only once did I discover that something was actually wrong with the gear (loose scope). All the other times, it was me. Later, when I started to record my hunts, I could see exactly where I was aiming at the time that the shot broke, see how steady I was or was not, and usually determine what went wrong with the shot.

All these considerations aside, I will add that there is one other option that nobody, including the OP, is considering. This is something I have witnessed numerous times in real life and can even produce a video or two if anyone needs proof. There is the possibility that the bullet actually did hit the hog, passed all the way through the hog and was slightly deflected during the pass through, resulting in the bullet impacting in an unexpected location on the ground behind the hog. The hog didn't fall over dead because the bullet failed to cause any direct or indirect upper central nervous system damage and so the hog ran off.

 

[AJC1]

Outstanding suggestion, which also indirectly begs the question as to why the OP was hunting with a bullet/load of unknown zero.

We zero under controlled circumstances so as to rule out other variables that might cause us to draw the wrong conclusions, not in the field where the results may be influenced by things like unknown distances, buck fever, rest stability issues, pushing/pulling/yanking/rushing/anticipating shots, etc.

When I first got into hunting, if I missed a shot, I would stop by my range and verify whether or not the issue was with the gear, or with me. Only once did I discover that something was actually wrong with the gear (loose scope). All the other times, it was me. Later, when I started to record my hunts, I could see exactly where I was aiming at the time that the shot broke, see how steady I was or was not, and usually determine what went wrong with the shot.

All these considerations aside, I will add that there is one other option that nobody, including the OP, is considering. This is something I have witnessed numerous times in real life and can even produce a video or two if anyone needs proof. There is the possibility that the bullet actually did hit the hog, passed all the way through the hog and was slightly deflected during the pass through, resulting in the bullet impacting in an unexpected location on the ground behind the hog. The hog didn't fall over dead because the bullet failed to cause any direct or indirect upper central nervous system damage and so the hog ran off.

I'm going out on a limb to say steel pig at 100 and steel turkey at 150.....

 

[Riomouse911]

18”? That’s an extreme amount of drop at only 150 yards. I think swapping my .45/70 from 300 to 405 grain bullets deviates less than those .223’s did at that distance.

As the others said; something else is probably going on.

Good luck finding the issue and solving it.

Stay safe.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I'm going out on a limb to say steel pig at 100 and steel turkey at 150.....

I have no idea what that means relevant to what I stated. Explanation/clarification?

 

[Varminterror]

I have no idea what that means relevant to what I stated. Explanation/clarification?

Seems he’s speculating this was at some Silhouette match, for whatever reason - I don’t see the OP mention a turkey anywhere…

There simply isn’t:

1) enough gravitational drop difference at 150 yards between a 55grn and a 69 grn load to have caused a full miss.

And

2) enough drop between 100yrd zero and 150yrds to have caused a full miss.

Certainly neither by 18”.

Further, it’s EXCEPTIONALLY rare - to the point of elimination as a plausible explanation - to have 18” of POI shift between 55grn and 69grn at 150 yards. As an example of this, I have used 50grn Vmax’s in literally hundreds of barrels as testing ammo, and then in dozens of those swapped to 77SMK’s for longer range testing, typically at 500 yards. I’ll walk out to 500 shooting the 50’s and change to the 77’s, hitting the same 66% IPSC targets, simply correcting a click or three (missing POA by 1moa or less), less than 6” of error between the two loads… at 500yrds…

The dude just missed a shot at a pig in field conditions. It happens.

 

[AJC1]

I have no idea what that means relevant to what I stated. Explanation/clarification?

Correct I was hoping he wasn't shooting at real animals while experimenting.....

 

[swg1]

I’ve personally seen up to seven inches of POI change between loads at 100yds and it could be around the clock as well. Change a load, all bets are off as to zero. Shoot on paper to confirm.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Outstanding suggestion, which also indirectly begs the question as to why the OP was hunting with a bullet/load of unknown zero.

We zero under controlled circumstances so as to rule out other variables that might cause us to draw the wrong conclusions, not in the field where the results may be influenced by things like unknown distances, buck fever, rest stability issues, pushing/pulling/yanking/rushing/anticipating shots, etc.

When I first got into hunting, if I missed a shot, I would stop by my range and verify whether or not the issue was with the gear, or with me. Only once did I discover that something was actually wrong with the gear (loose scope). All the other times, it was me. Later, when I started to record my hunts, I could see exactly where I was aiming at the time that the shot broke, see how steady I was or was not, and usually determine what went wrong with the shot.

All these considerations aside, I will add that there is one other option that nobody, including the OP, is considering. This is something I have witnessed numerous times in real life and can even produce a video or two if anyone needs proof. There is the possibility that the bullet actually did hit the hog, passed all the way through the hog and was slightly deflected during the pass through, resulting in the bullet impacting in an unexpected location on the ground behind the hog. The hog didn't fall over dead because the bullet failed to cause any direct or indirect upper central nervous system damage and so the hog ran off.

Couldn’t have said it better, on all accounts.

I was also thinking it wasn’t a miss.

 

[kalielkslayer]

As was previously said, we make mistakes on paper, not game.

I would probably miss too if I hadn’t gained confidence in the load I was shooting.

That confidence comes from developing a load that shoots well, adjusting the sights for that load, then shooting it at any distance I would shoot it at game.

With that confidence, a miss is purely me!

 

[Buzznrose]

I have my AR sighted in at 100 yards with 55 grain reloads. I picked up 69 grain factory HP's and took a shot at a piggie yesterday at about 150 yards and MISSED. I hate when that happens. Anyone speculate on the drop difference? I think i saw a puff of dust below and that would mean a drop close to 18 inches or more

1 shot in a hunting situation with a totally different round and you cannot accurately verify the POI.

Off hand shot? Supported? How? Wind? Flinch? Lotta speculation.

I think you may have messed up the shot mostly, Blaming the untested ammo is not a good excuse IMO.

Should have checked your zero with new rounds before shooting at animals.

ETA: And curious what you are shooting and what your normal groups are. I’m wondering is an AR or a hunting rifle or a precision rifle? I know my AR’s are generally 2 MOA on a good day but I mainly shoot factory ammo. But if shooting a good bolt gun, should be much better.

Not trying to bust on ya, just saying…lotta questions

 

[kmw1954]

Just yesterday morning I was at the range verifying bullet drop and scope settings for two different loads. 1. a Hornady 62gr HPBT loaded with near max Accurate 2460.. 2. a RMR 69gr HPBT near max loaded with Benchmark.

Both were shot at 300yds with a predetermined scope setting that I knew would be low. Target was plain white paper 18" long with 2 stick on orange splatter dots at the top.

Results; 62gr shot 11" low from POA. The 69gr shot 7" low. Then moved to 200yds and made a 10click adjustment to the scope which I also determined from previous use. Results; the 63gr was right on target at the top of the paper. The 69gr round overshot the top of the paper. Moved down 4 clicks and the 69gr too was right on target.

So with this I find it hard to believe there was an 18" drop within 50yds. unless these are very low speed loads.

 

[lezmark]

I wasnt actually hunting, if i was I sure as heck would know and tested ammunition before. We have 20 acres in east Texas and the pigs are making a mess. I saw a few roam in the field and took a shot off the porch. I obviously need some adjustments.

 

[docbrown]

I have a load for Winchester 55 grain FMJ and RMR 69 grain BTHP that has pretty much the same POA/POI. Of course, I developed the loads for this rifle. Comparing a factory load to a hand load might wind up being more, but 18 inches seems excessive. I could see a change in high/low or left/right by an inch or two, but 18 inches is way off. I would check your zero on the scope and scope mounts - could be something there. Trip to the range is in order. Post back your results and let us know.

 

[dh1633pm]

Isn't this just physics? Gravity causes all things to fall at an equal rate. Example: Drop a golf ball and a hammer at the same time, they should hit the ground at the same time. Without any interruptions from wind, hail, or fire, etc, both will hit the ground at the same time.

Projectiles traveling the same speed would also be expected to drop at the same equal rate. Just because they are both moving forward doesn't mean that gravity doesn't effect them. Just that one appears to be going faster and therefore gets from point a to point b with less drop because it got there faster.

There are other things to consider of course. Wind resistance and such. I would expect a 55 grain and a 69 grain going at about the same speed to have close to the same impact point.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Isn't this just physics? Gravity causes all things to fall at an equal rate. Example: Drop a golf ball and a hammer at the same time, they should hit the ground at the same time. Without any interruptions from wind, hail, or fire, etc, both will hit the ground at the same time.

Projectiles traveling the same speed would also be expected to drop at the same equal rate. Just because they are both moving forward doesn't mean that gravity doesn't effect them. Just that one appears to be going faster and therefore gets from point a to point b with less drop because it got there faster.

There are other things to consider of course. Wind resistance and such. I would expect a 55 grain and a 69 grain going at about the same speed to have close to the same impact point.

Basic laws of physics are applicable but, there are many more influences involved with the flight path of a projectile than simply gravity and velocity.

The design of the projectile is a biggie ... ballistic coefficients are key. As already stated in this thread, barrel harmonics and rate of spin (dictated by rifling) will have an affect. My first thought was to ask myself what the OP's length of barrel and rate of twist was ... 1:9 vs 1:7 might make a difference with the 69 grain projectiles.

Wind, of course, as already mentioned, may have lateral influences and also air, in and of itself, is looked-upon as a liquid in the ballisitc sciences so humidity, elevation, etc., influences bullet trajectory ... or the trajectory of anything fired-from a barrel, tube, pipe, whatever.

I doubt any natural elements had any cause to inflict 18" of downward influences on OP's said projectile at a mere 100 yards. Neither did projectile weight, density, design, etc.

It had to be either barrel issues or shooter error OR a really poorly loaded cartrdige (as-in undercharged or downloaded which would cause velocity issues possibly) imho.

 

[dh1633pm]

Said very nicely Airborne Falcon.

 

[lezmark]

I have a load for Winchester 55 grain FMJ and RMR 69 grain BTHP that has pretty much the same POA/POI. Of course, I developed the loads for this rifle. Comparing a factory load to a hand load might wind up being more, but 18 inches seems excessive. I could see a change in high/low or left/right by an inch or two, but 18 inches is way off. I would check your zero on the scope and scope mounts - could be something there. Trip to the range is in order. Post back your results and let us know.

I plan on doing some testing at the same distance later this week.