.223 and Deer - I know not a good idea but....

Have you killed a deer or similar sized game animal with a .223

  • Yes

    Votes: 61 42.1%

  • No

    Votes: 84 57.9%
  • Total voters
    145
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Would NEVER consider it (even if it were legal)....Too many chances for things to go wrong....I know many people do it, but I'd always err on the side of "more power". Deer around here may go 200#.

Biggest thing I'd shoot with a .223 would be a coyote, and then I'd really prefer a.22-250.
 
Grumulkin,what brans and weight bullet did you use in the 222? Byron
 
A .223 with a good bullet will penetrate from one side of a deer to the other. As for it being a smaller diameter it won't matter as long as you put the bullet where it belongs.
 
Yes.

Probably the largest dozen or so hogs I have killed have been with my .223, using 55 grain Sierra Gamekings.

Last year, I killed over 75 hogs, and all but maybe a dozen or so were with the .223.
 
This is really interesting! I figured No would have a huge majority. Truth be known, there's prolly been more deer killed with a 22LR than everything else combined! Don't guess those folks have kept too gooda records though. :rolleyes:
 
The title reminds me of a Car Talk radio show that I was listening to, one Saturday. It's a call-in radio show format loosely based on cars. Each call usually gets 5 to 10 minutes of discussion.

"You've been listening to Car Talk. Our next caller is George, from Baltimore. Hi George."

"Hi. I have a 1994 Honda Civic 4 door and I was wandering if I could use it to tow a trailer...?"

"No." Dead air. "All right, next caller..."



You know you probably shouldn't, even though it technically can be done.
 
Here we go again.....................

Use a 55gr or heavier "expanding" soft point bullet......
Shoot the deer "where he lives"; heart, lungs, spine, brain........

=>Dead deer.

I've killed over 150 deer with .22cf's. Loss rate has been less than with .24" and larger due to EXCESSIVELY TOUGH bullets that didn't expand. ie:7mm/08 with bullets designed and/or intended for 7-mags.

This year I lost two of three deer I shot with a recently aquired .243 before it was stolen. The shots were very close, and "body- center of mass" because they were moving. Bullets to deer walking away into paunch (we in Georgia call it a "Texas heart shot", don't work too well at under 50yds with any high-velocity small caliber rifle.)

Not a slight against the .243, but just to point out that I've got an excellent success rate with the .22cf's.

Only change to the advice to use a 55gr or heavier bullet is with the .22Hornet.

I prefer the Sierra 40gr Varminter HP because it being designed for the .22-250 at velocities exceeding 4,000fps, it holds together quite well in the Hornet at ~3,000fps from a 1/14" (my Ruger m77/22) or older 1/16" twist barrels. I've had excellent success with the excellent Remington 45gr HP loaded to ~2,700-2,800fps out to 185yds to include heart/lung shots.

The dichotomy in experiences and recommendations is with those who HAVE used the .22cf for deer and those who haven't, or have limited but poor experiences.

I was quite doubtful in my early career as a Conservation Officer. But, after witnessing many instances of their use on deer, some exceeding 250lbs dressed weight, I changed my mind.

Most "failures" I've seen have been with either FMJ, or use of lighter than 55gr bullets. First deer I ever shot with a .223 (Ruger mini-14) was with 50gr Remington PHP. Penetration ran around 5" for the 5 shots that I put into it (a smallish 2-1/2yr 8-pt. that dressed ~135lbs). I finished the deer with a .357mag to the head. I was in the "anti-.22cf" crowd for quite a number of years after that.

Contrast that to one I shot 4yrs ago with an Bushmaster "Shorty-AK"- a .223 Carbine with 14.5"bbl w/AK style muzzle brake with a handload with a Hornady 60gr SoftPoint at 2,900fps. Entry wound was to center of neck at bottom of white neck patch. Bullet exited back of neck, re-entered the shoulder, broke the scapula (shoulder blade), exited the shoulder, re-entered the left "ham", broke the head of femur (ball of the ball socket in hip), and exited the "cheek" of the butt. Three entry and three exit wounds. With the busted neck the deer was DRT, but made an impressive "spin" as he went down. Shot was "stepped" off at 27yds.

Two weeks later, I had switched to my H-Bar upper and the Sierra 63gr SMP. At a range of 225yds (lased), I took down a smallish doe (90lbs) through the shoulder/spine. DRT. Bullet exited with a 1" diameter exit wound. About like a 170gr RN from my .30/30.

(Yeah, I use a LOT of different rifles to hunt with. This year, more fell to the old .30/30 because I got a bad case of tendonitis in my left arm, and most of the hunting where I'm hunting is walking open piney woods contasted to "culling" does on fields and cut-overs in past years)

Back to the .22cf's........
Two months later, I used a Hornady Bulk-pack 55gr SP w/cannulure over 27.0gr of BL-C2 to drop another yearling at a lased 317yds. I held on the spine and took off the top of the heart. 2" exit wound left adequate blood trail to find the deer after 30yd blood trail.

Again.................. 55gr or heavier bullet + >Shot placement, >Shot placement, >Shot Placement...............

This year my only ".22cf" kill was with a newly aquired Rem. 700 in .22-250 with 55gr Corlokt. A "factory load" at that !!! BTW, it chrono's at over 3,800fps and craters primers in my rifle!!! A "HOT" factory load, but not too accurate (1.5"-2" @100yds) 250yd shot to heart resulted in 40yd dash to eternity.

Again.............. 55gr or heavier bullet + >Shot placement, >Shot placement, >Shot Placement...............
 
I have had no problem killing corn fed Nebraska deer with a .223 using winchester's 64 grain softpoint. Match the bullet to the game, and stay within the limitations of the cartidge and you won't have any issues.
 
I once read an article about an Inuit village where everyone agreed the best cartridge for polar bear was .243....see, they found out the hard way .222 was not enough (I guess this was before 223 was really popular in boltactions) but 243 had the lowest recoil of the cartridges big enough to get the job done.


Of course it also turned out they were getting em when they were asleep in the den.

locals probably had a different opinion on what was the best cartridge for a charging polar bear.


Same thing here. The only deer I have successfully harvested was a small little buck with a small set of 3 prongs..but most people are desiring to get the big midwestern cornfed buck, even if they do end up going home with a deer more like mine than their dream animal.

Still, carry enough gun for the biggest deer you are likely to see. Here in MN, the 223 is probably a little lacking for the biggest, and do you really think a hunter is going to pass up on a shot because he might be a little undergunned?

On the flip side, there are plenty of places, like TX I am always told, where the deer are a fair amount smaller, or maybe the biggest ones just aren't as big, either way, .223 and similar ones seem to be a good choice there.

That's why states setting gamelaws is such a good idea. You can never have a 'one size fits all' law, there will always be spots in TX where the biggest bucks really call for something a bit bigger, and there are also probably spots in MN where you'll only see scrawny little deer where the 223 would be jsut fine, but in general, these state by state laws usually pretty good. Now of course, sometimes they are poorly written so that a guy could hunt deer legally with a .38 special out of a leveraction but not a .223, but if you are going to try and guarentee that every possible permutation is taken care of, you can end up with a beurocratic mess that is worse than a simple law with a loophole here and there
 
Illegal for rifle hunting in minnesota. legal in wisconsin. go figure

I have killed deer with a .223 contender. it had been struck by a guy on a Suzuki crotch rocket on a country road at about 100mph. For a while I was thinking I would be more humane to finish off the rider than the deer. He was screaming like a little girl, turned out he had smoooshed one of his nuts on the gas tank on the way over the handle bars. His bike had broken the back of the doe, and it was trying to pull itself into the woods on its fronts legs, the back legs were just dragging. All i had were woodchuck loads with 45 grain TNT's, they worked, but not the best choice. County mountie was just fine with me giving the Coup de gras.

I think the .223 may be ok in places were you have small deer, but in places with big, 300 pound deer are not uncommon, a .223 is a bit weak.
 
.223 is illegal to hunt big game with in Minnesota so therefore the answer is no for me. I've only taken deer with 30-06 and .44 mag

on a side note i know a guy who claims that his buddy shot a deer in the rear end in his backyard with a pellet gun and it killed the deer.
 
I don't know about deer, but this pig was 60-70 lbs and dropped in her tracks to a 75 grain Black Hills fired from the rifle in the picture.
IMG_0185.gif
 
Put your bullet in the right place and it's possible. Although, longer shots, I'd want to stick to something more powerful.
 
been wondering about this myself as I look into hunting rifles.

How convenient it would be is my AR's and hunting rifles all used the same stuff.

The law doesn't seem to like the idea though. :(
 
Well, I built a 6.8SPC AR JUST for that purpose. I want to use it for Deer/Hogs and similar sized game.

To date, the smallest I have used (back when I was a kid) a 6mm and the 2-3 deer that I shot, dropped dead in their tracks. Note that none of those shots were over 100 yards IIRC.

I do have a .270 that so far has been my general hunting rifle, but now that the 6.8 is built, I will probably use that more.
 
I read an article the other day where the author was talking about how this married couple that he knew very well and who had a cabin in the Pacific Northwest (in what he called "prime Elk country") and who used very precise shots from a .243 to bring down Elk. These people saw Elk on an almost daily basis and could afford to wait until the right moment for a perfect shot.

Now I've never hunted Elk, but if they could bring down an Elk with a .243 by waiting for the "perfect shot to present itself", I don't see why you couldn't shoot Deer with a .223 Rem if you used the same tactics. Elk seem a little too big to have a 243 used on them and from what I understand, they have a reputation for needing a much larger round than the 243. Most people use .270's, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06's, .300 Win Mags and the .338 Win Mag in their pursuit of Elk. These people pull it off year in and year out though according to this guy.

There are hunting regulations to consider though. From what I understand regarding the hunting laws of most States, there are actually some States that forbid the taking of game with so small of a cartridge as the .223 Rem. But if you had to for whatever reason, I think it could be done, especially if you used a heavy bullet for caliber combo like the 72, 75 or 77 grain bullet, but under regular circumstances I pick something bigger for deer. I wouldn't want them to suffer any more than they had to if I could prevent it by choosing something slightly bigger.
 
My uncle uses a .222 for deer in ND. Since there are so many deer he hunts every year and has taken a deer almost every year for probaly 40 years. Also I took my first deer this year with my other uncles Win. 70 223. I don't think I even looked through the scope because I was so excited. AZhunter12.

PS Norman I like that truck in the background.
 
AZHunter, did your uncle use factory 222 or handloads. What about the 223,factory or handloads? In either,do you know the bullet brands and weights?I find the study of 222 and 223 on deer fascinating. Thanks, Byron
 
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