.223 Brass resizing. Running into problems

[Palladan44]

Okie dokie.
Pulled out the decapping pin/expander only to find that it was unthreading about half way off......not good. Tightened it up.
And, read the RCBS manual that came with the die...... it states to set the decapping pin to .400" past the end of the die...... I clearly had it set deeper than that......i ran 5 cartridges, and they all cycle.
Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction here, and reminder to always read all the instructions and never assume based on prior assumptions/experience.

 

[film495]

I'm going to start lubricating the inside of the mouths. I formerly was not because didn't want to shoot a bunch of lubricant into the case. (I didn't know it was necessary) What I'll just do now is dry tumble the cases to ensure all lube is out.

for whatever reason I stared doing this step just with dish soap and hot water and then a rinse. tumble the water out of them and then air dry or speed up with a blow dryer, just another option.

 

[Nature Boy]

And, read the RCBS manual that came with the die...... it states to set the decapping pin to .400" past the end of the die...... I clearly had it set deeper than that......i ran 5 cartridges, and they all cycle.

When @Walkalong made the supposition that you might be pulling the neck forward when extracting the expander my suggestion was going to be to back out the expander a few turns and try it again. From what you said above it looks like that’s exactly what was happening.

I had the same issue when I first started reloading .308.

 

[conan32120]

Just for the heck of it turn your sizing die in another half turn

 

[243winxb]

shell plate

Each station may produce a different shoulder bump. Measure deck height of shell plate at each station.

Mine sized to much.

Lubricate and resize with only the resizing die in a single toolhead in position 1 in my Dillon 550B

Like a single stage press.

 

[Walkalong]

I will start to Lubricate the insides.

I have installed some nitrided expander balls where I could, where I'm not using a bushing style sizer with separate expander mandrels.

 

[Walkalong]

Okie dokie.
Pulled out the decapping pin/expander only to find that it was unthreading about half way off......not good. Tightened it up.
And, read the RCBS manual that came with the die...... it states to set the decapping pin to .400" past the end of the die...... I clearly had it set deeper than that......i ran 5 cartridges, and they all cycle.
Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction here, and reminder to always read all the instructions and never assume based on prior assumptions/experience.

Sweet! It's the little things that can change and drive us nuts, we always notice the big ones right off.

 

[Palladan44]

Just for the heck of it turn your sizing die in another half turn

I'm thinking this would not be the greatest idea. It's already maxed out to where the die is very firmly pressing the shell plate into the platform when the machine reaches her full range of motion naturally. By going any further, I would maybe gain another .001" of resizing but then rather than the machine platform maxing out, it's the die crushing into the toolhead that is where the system comes to a stop.

 

[MEHavey]

A case may appear toi "plunk", but is just mated up again the chamber shoulder.
It's not until the bolt shoves the case forward under force that an excess headspace problem jams the cartridge.

think the OP is having an issue with the resizing process..

^^^ THIS ^^^
(plus it looks like the new/problem cast is nickel?)

Set sizing die to full contact +1/8 turn to diagnose if this is the issue.

It's already maxed out to where the die is very firmly pressing the shell plate
into the platform when the machine reaches her full range of motion naturally.

Unless/until that's true under full resizing pressure, you're likely still springing
the press off the shell holder -- especially if that case is nickel-plated/stiff.

 

[Palladan44]

I have installed some nitrided expander balls where I could, where I'm not using a bushing style sizer with separate expander mandrels.

Nice, I wonder if there is a nitride expander ball I can thread on this RCBS rod? Are they interchangeable with one another?

Also, how do I keep the expander ball from loosening off again?
I'm not comfortable using a vise grip, wouldn't want to mar the tooling surface in any way. Maybe some blue loctite?

 

[Walkalong]

It's already maxed out to where the die is very firmly pressing the shell plate into the platform when the machine reaches her full range of motion naturally.

If the die is still making contact when actually sizing a case, that's as far as you want to go, and may be more than you need.

 

[Walkalong]

Nice, I wonder if there is a nitride expander ball I can thread on this RCBS rod? Are they interchangeable with one another?

Also, how do I keep the expander ball from loosening off again?
I'm not comfortable using a vise grip, wouldn't want to mar the tooling surface in any way. Maybe some blue loctite?

Different types of course, although I did make a Redding carbide expander fit an RCBS die.

Blue LocTite in moderation.

Redding carbide expander button on modified RCBS .30-30 expander/decapping assembly.

 

[Charlie98]

Blue LocTite in moderation.

+1 You will still need to get the expander ball off if you break the decapping pin.

 

[Palladan44]

So I loaded approximately 30 cartridges with the anomaly that hang up in the chamber of the Colt Hbar [the gun that which these cartridges were loaded for]
I've solved the problem, or so it seems.
It turns our that these cartridges do cycle just fine in another gun I have, so I'll just burn these up at the range in that gun...
No biggie.

 

[mrawesome22-250]

Got me all excited mentioning nitrided expander ball.

Can't believe no one is making nitrided dies yet. Hard, smooth, virtually impervious to rusting, zero dimensional changes... Seems like a no brainer and all the qualities you would want in reloading dies.

 

[jmorris]

I also believe there is no expanding happening, there is just a tapered blunt funnel that meshes with the top of the case to drop powder. There isn't anything that goes down into the case mouth to expand the inside the same as you'd find in the Dillon pistol caliber conversion kit.....

On bottle neck rifle dies the expander is generally on the decapping pin of the size die. They can’t have one that works as a powder funnel because the opening would be so small, powder bridging problems would be insane, especially on small calibers.

 

[Palladan44]

Update:
I finally got a case gauge.
The rounds that hang up in my Colt HBAR
drop in the case gauge perfectly flush, and spin with ease. It's crazy, so the Colt chamber is tighter than the case gauge? Couldn't be.
Tight throat maybe?
The bullets are not engaging the rifling, I can confirm that. Brass is trimmed to 1.745"

These same rounds cam in really hard on my new Ruger American bolt rifle too. Anywhere from 10 to 20 lbs of force needed to push the bolt from the full forward position and get bolt locked down. I'm not a fan of this at all, I know a round that Cams in really hard can be the first sign of an upcoming KB...

 

[AJC1]

Update:
I finally got a case gauge.
The rounds that hang up in my Colt HBAR
drop in the case gauge perfectly flush, and spin with ease. It's crazy, so the Colt chamber is tighter than the case gauge? Couldn't be.
Tight throat maybe?
The bullets are not engaging the rifling, I can confirm that. Brass is trimmed to 1.745"

These same rounds cam in really hard on my new Ruger American bolt rifle too. Anywhere from 10 to 20 lbs of force needed to push the bolt from the full forward position and get bolt locked down. I'm not a fan of this at all, I know a round that Cams in really hard can be the first sign of an upcoming KB...

A round that cams in only turns into a kaboom if the case is to long and the lead crimps the bullet causing an overpressure. Your trim length would not allow that....

 

[txtaxman]

Update:
I finally got a case gauge.
The rounds that hang up in my Colt HBAR drop in the case gauge perfectly flush, and spin with ease. It's crazy, so the Colt chamber is tighter than the case gauge? Couldn't be.
Tight throat maybe?
The bullets are not engaging the rifling, I can confirm that. Brass is trimmed to 1.745"

These same rounds cam in really hard on my new Ruger American bolt rifle too. Anywhere from 10 to 20 lbs of force needed to push the bolt from the full forward position and get bolt locked down. I'm not a fan of this at all, I know a round that Cams in really hard can be the first sign of an upcoming KB...

There are four critical dimensions on a cartridge case: Overall length, Cartridge Base to Datum, Case Diameter at the shoulder, and Case Diameter 0.2 inches from the base. It sounds as if your sizing die does not reduce the diameter of the case enough 0.2 inches from the base.

What case gauge do you have? They are not all the same.

Although I have a case gauge and a cartridge gauge, I prefer to use my Stoney Point (now Hornady) Lock-N-Load Headspace Comparator to set the Cartridge Base to Datum length. Additionally, I use a micrometer to check the diameter 0.2 inches from the base and the diameter at the shoulder.

My Wilson Case Gage checks two things: Cartridge Base to Datum and Case Overall Length. It will accept a fired case, so it can be used as a comparator to set a sizing die. However, it will not indicate when the diameter of the sized case is too big.

I also have a Hornady Cartridge Gauge which is made to minimum chamber specifications. A case that drops in this gauge should fit any standard SAAMI chamber.

Although I do not own one, many people recommend Sheridan Ammunition Gauges, especially the slotted version.

 

[Blue68f100]

Do you have access to a set of Go/NoGo gauges? I would find a set and check to see if your chamber is in spec.

Just curious which part of the world are you located at.

Take a marker and fully mark up a round and chamber it. Then check for rub marks. Make sure you mark the base too. This will tell you if your shoulder position is causing the hard lock up.

 

[Palladan44]

I reset the resizing die, and tightened expander ball so it doesn't back out, and new reloaded rounds now cycle fine.

But I have about 30 loaded rounds from a botched batch. Now I'm trying out to figure out what exactly went wrong with the dimensions on the ones that won't cycle, and I just can't figure it out.

My case gauge is pretty generic, it doesn't have a name...... probably not good.
But, the rounds drop in and spin and sit perfectly flush. Looks like I can wipe my @$$ with this thing.

 

[Blue68f100]

Glad you found the problem and got it corrected.

As brass work hardens it's springs back less. If your annealing every time eliminates that problem.

Redding makes a Body Die so you can size the loaded rounds without breaking them down.

 

[AJC1]

Do you have access to a set of Go/NoGo gauges? I would find a set and check to see if your chamber is in spec.

Just curious which part of the world are you located at.

Take a marker and fully mark up a round and chamber it. Then check for rub marks. Make sure you mark the base too. This will tell you if your shoulder position is causing the hard lock up.

I'm curious how many of us are running around with multiple guages.... I got both 223 and 243, and another set I need to check.

 

[Blue68f100]

I'm curious how many of us are running around with multiple guages.... I got both 223 and 243, and another set I need to check.

I have 5-6 sets for the calibers I work on. Alone with chamber reamers.

 

[garandsrus]

With the decapping rod screwed out too far, you might have been hitting the rod on the bottom inside of the case, preventing the die from going far enough to fully resize the case. It would feel like the die was bottomed out and binding the press.

With Dillon tool heads and shell plates, several times I have had to grind several thousandths off the bottom of a resizing die so it would set the shoulder correctly. The shell plate is probably thicker than a shell holder in certain calibers. Shortening the die is the answer. You may also need to use the die without the lock nut, or put the lock nut on the underside of the tool head. This is due to a thick tool head.

I also use a RCBS Precision Mic to set the shoulder correctly. if I don’t have one for a specific caliber, I use a comparator where the hole hits the shoulder somewhere along its taper. Use your calipers to measure that length. The number doesn’t matter. Size the brass and remeasure. You want the new number to be .002 to .003 less than the first value. This is how far back you pushed the shoulder.

Here is a comparator meant for measuring bullets, but it works the same way for case shoulders if the holes are big enough: https://www.brownells.com/reloading...rators/sinclair-hex-style-bullet-comparators/

You can make your own with a nut and drill press. Drill several different sized holes for different calibers, one on each facet of the nut. Measure the diameter of the shoulder about 1/2 way up the taper and drill to that approximate size. They work very well.